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Switch to Forum Live View 01/31/2011 SF: "Two Cards To Bring Them All (And In Fairness Bind Them)"
1 year ago  ::  Jan 30, 2012 - 10:49PM #11
Raedien
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 5,527
So....the best bargain fixers (a la Terramorphic Expanse) get worse while the most expensive (Duals/Shocks) are still good.

Tutors get screwed which makes card draw better (BLUE WINS).

Graveyards get screwed (Black loses) and extra turns too (Blue loses).

Artifact mana becomes even more important (all decks, but we know Blue is about the artifacts).

Library searching is banned...so Jester Caps don't work (Black loses).

This seems bad.

I get what you're trying to do, honestly, I even agree with some it...but all this does is further bend the color pie to the favor of specific colors rather than to more of them IMO.

I play Commander, I even enjoy it sometimes...but it is not a "good" format for many reasons and from many perspectives.

This may be an interesting experiment but nothing more.  Give me some rules that make the other colors, especially Red, as good as Blue and maybe I'll bother.
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 12:19AM #12
Roxolan
Date Joined: May 15, 2006
Posts: 69

Jan 30, 2012 -- 10:49PM, Raedien wrote:

So....the best bargain fixers (a la Terramorphic Expanse) get worse while the most expensive (Duals/Shocks) are still good.


It's not like there aren't expensive fetches or budget duals.

Jan 30, 2012 -- 10:49PM, Raedien wrote:

I get what you're trying to do, honestly, I even agree with some it...but all this does is further bend the color pie to the favor of specific colors rather than to more of them IMO.


You mean it favours red and white? The "worst colours" of EDH by popular opinion? That doesn't sound too bad.


Not that I'm sold on this house rule anyway (and it would be quite an ordeal to get it accepted in my local group even if I was). That's why I'd like to see next week's deck built using the harshest restrictions, as an experiment. This week's deck is mono-white, a colour which isn't affected all that much by the change. I want to know what you end up with when you tell a black/green/white deck not to play reanimation, tutors or fetches.

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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 2:35AM #13
DocDoom
Date Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 2,021

Jan 30, 2012 -- 9:46PM, branewalker wrote:

Jan 30, 2012 -- 9:33PM, ZerinKaramoff wrote:

Yep. I grabbed the wrong card as an example. I somehow had it in my head that the creatures in play were exiled, graveyard dumped into play, and exiled creatures put into the graveyard.

Dawn of the Dead would be a better example here. 


...grafdigger's cage doesn't stop Tooth and Nail either. Those cards enter the battlefield from your hand.



But Stranglehold does. No searching your library.... (you coudl still use it unentwined to drop two fatties, but that is not the reason why its played so much).

And Colfenor's Plans were in the Decklist as well...
Editor, to the rescue!

Green gets bitten a bit as well, with all teh Landfetching going on.

[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 4:04AM #14
Qilong
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 2,226

Jan 30, 2012 -- 9:32PM, zomghax wrote:

You're not mistaken.
Grafdigger's Cage doesn't affect Living Death in any way.



This was discussed at length in the comments to the preview article for the card, where it was demonstrated that LD exiles the cards from the graveyard, then puts them onto the battlefield from exile. Grafdigger's Cage has as much effect on Living Death as it does Jhoira of the Ghitu , Praetor's Grasp , the new Liege of the Shadows , etc., and all for the same reasons.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."

"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)

"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 5:02AM #15
ZerinKaramoff
Date Joined: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 54
Tooth and Nail is an example of a card stopped by Grafdigger's Cage , rather than Tooth and Nail (though, interestingly, Tooth and Nail's dump two dudes from hand is still sweet in when Stranglehold is in efect).
Adam Styborski
Writer for Serious Fun

Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/the_stybs
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 5:38AM #16
Qilong
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 2,226

Jan 31, 2012 -- 5:02AM, ZerinKaramoff wrote:

Tooth and Nail is an example of a card stopped by Grafdigger's Cage , rather than Tooth and Nail (though, interestingly, Tooth and Nail's dump two dudes from hand is still sweet in when Stranglehold is in efect).



You must mean one other card there for the first card mentioned, otherwise that sentences makes no sense. However, T&N is not inherently harmed by Cage or Hold, only the search function is harmed by Hold. T&N, like Living Death and such, skirt the restrictions.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."

"Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969)

"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 6:00AM #17
Arahdial
Date Joined: Jul 2, 2009
Posts: 2
I had to read this article three times before realizing the author is establishing new game types, not changing any of the existing rules. 
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 6:08AM #18
Reliquium
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2006
Posts: 5
Oh, I see. Printing Grafdigger's Cage is a way to force us to enjoy the product we buy from you in the way you want us to enjoy it. Like we just couldn't set table rules like those printed on this card any time we sit down for a game of Commander. Making more and more sense as the explainations roll in. Keep it coming! :/
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 7:33AM #19
ZerinKaramoff
Date Joined: Aug 27, 2009
Posts: 54

Jan 31, 2012 -- 5:38AM, Qilong wrote:

Jan 31, 2012 -- 5:02AM, ZerinKaramoff wrote:

Tooth and Nail is an example of a card stopped by Grafdigger's Cage , rather than Tooth and Nail (though, interestingly, Tooth and Nail's dump two dudes from hand is still sweet in when Stranglehold is in efect).



You must mean one other card there for the first card mentioned, otherwise that sentences makes no sense. However, T&N is not inherently harmed by Cage or Hold, only the search function is harmed by Hold. T&N, like Living Death and such, skirt the restrictions.



Defense of the Heart is the correct example I sent in (now showing as fixed in the article). Thanks again for everyone who contributed to correcting the examples!

Adam Styborski
Writer for Serious Fun

Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/the_stybs
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1 year ago  ::  Jan 31, 2012 - 10:37AM #20
xuul
Date Joined: Jun 16, 2010
Posts: 8
I'm super pumped to see the Ghave deck! I've been working to put together my first Commander deck based around Saprolings, other tokens, and +1/+1 counters.
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