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1 year ago ::
Jan 30, 2012 - 4:54PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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I did my best to look up what info I could (subsiquently have a few more questions for another post); would a card w/ an Undying ability such as Nearheath Stalker  if attached w/ an Aura (prior to being put in the graveyard of course) such as Dead Weight  stay in the graveyard? Here is my thought process, and i will try to quote as much as I found. 702.91 * If a creature with undying that has a +1/+1 counter on it receives enough -1/-1 counters to cause it to be destroyed by lethal damage or put into its owner's graveyard for having 0 or less toughness, undying won't trigger and the card won't return to the battlefield. That's because undying checks the creature's existence just before it leaves the battlefield, and it still has all those counters on it at that point. I know dead weight doesnt say the word "Counter" on it but it wouldnt need to because it is a Perm on the battlefield and itself is used to keep track of the -2/-2 as would some random Instant use a "Counter" to keep track of the -/- due to the Instant leaving the battlefield after its cast. Clear as mud? Cheers! Benjamin
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1 year ago ::
Jan 30, 2012 - 4:58PM
#2
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Dead Weight does not put -2/-2 counters on a creature (EDIT: or, better stated, 2 -1/-1 counters). Even if it did, Undying would still trigger as long as it had no +1/+1 counters on it when it died, as Undying only cares about the presence of +1/+1 counters (or lack thereof); it cares not about other types of counters that may be on a creature. You are correct in understanding that if a creature with Undying has a +1/+1 counter on it and receives enough -1/-1 counters (or receives -X/-X due to something like Dead Weight or Grasp Of Darkness  ) to reduce said creature's toughness to 0, Undying wll not trigger.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 30, 2012 - 4:58PM
#3
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- Mogic Puzzle Master
- Plays Well With Others
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Dead Weight does not give out counters, so it does not interfere with Undying. Also, Undying cares about +1/+1 counters.
DCI Level 2 Judge
"That's what's so stupid about the whole magic thing, you know," Rincewind said. "You spend twenty years learning the spell that makes nude virgins appear in your bedroom, and then you're so poisoned by quicksilver fumes and half-blind from reading old grimoires that you can't remember what happens next."
- Terry Pratchett, The Colour Of Magic
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1 year ago ::
Jan 30, 2012 - 5:02PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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Gotcha thx.
I see what ya mean now.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 31, 2012 - 3:54AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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Primal Cocoon  would work, since that actually puts +1/+1 counters on the enchanted creature. ~ Tim
 Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D Sig
Show
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
That makes no sense to me.
If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?
~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise  in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch  . YAY COLOR IDENTITY 
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 31, 2012 - 6:44AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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The big thing that I was really missing was that undying only cares about the +1 tokens, and doesn't care about -1 tokens. Thx
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1 year ago ::
Jan 31, 2012 - 6:46AM
#7
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- Beware of Falling Body Parts
Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2003
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/nitpick
Counters not tokens.
I dream of Beer Head Armies. Autocard is our friend. [c]Urborg Mindsucker[/c] → Urborg Mindsucker 
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1 year ago ::
Jan 31, 2012 - 8:56AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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The big thing that I was really missing was that undying only cares about the +1 tokens, and doesn't care about -1 tokens. Thx
(You mean counters)
That and the fact that the card you mentioned didnt actually use counters at all.
~ Tim
Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D Sig
Show
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
That makes no sense to me.
If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?
~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch . YAY COLOR IDENTITY
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 31, 2012 - 9:10AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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...yeah counters.....not tokens
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