|
1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 3:52PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
|
Hey guys, my question mainly involves Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite  1. Lets say my opponent has two Honor of the Pure  on the field, and summons a 2/2 creature. Is there any kind of timestamp order where elesh's ability would activate and the creature would die before honor of the pure goes into effect or would they just simply nullify each other and he would enter as a 2/2? 2. Another question kinda similar with regards to Cytoplast Manipulator  . Lets say my opponent has one on the field while elesh is on my side. If he summons another, can he choose to graft one of his +1/+1's to her as she enters and thereby saving her from Elesh's effect, and making her a +1/+1? 3. Lets say once more my opponent chooses to summon a 2/2 and has Simic Guildmage  on the field, can he say that he activates simic's ability to move a +1/+1 from one of his to the entering 2/2, thereby saving it again from Elesh's static and making it a 1/1 or does hers go into effect before that can be done? Just asking because my friends like to play with these types of decks, and i'm wondering since she is a static effect how it would go against things like that, thanks!
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 3:58PM
#2
|
- Niftily helpful
- DCI Level 2 Judge
Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
|
1. No there is not. Assuming the 2/2 is a white creature, it would get +2/+2 from the Pures and -2/-2 from the Elesh, making it a 2/2.
2. No they cannot. Graft is a triggered ability: it uses the stack and can be responded to. Before the graft trigger can even go on the sack, the creature is getting -2/-2 from Elesh, so if its base toughness is 2 or less, it will die well before the graft trigger would resolve.
3. No they cannot. Before they even get the chance to activate the Guildmage's ability, SBAs are checked and the 2/2 would die before they could even activate the ability.
(also, I'm assuming there's something else in questions 2 and 3 to keep the Manipulator and the Guildmage on the battlefield, since they both start out as 2/2s).
Wizards.Com Boards Net Rep
DCI Level 2 Judge
Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 3:58PM
#3
|
|
|
1) Static abilities (like those from Elesh Norn and Honor of the Pure) always apply. There is no point in time in which they don't apply. Their 2/2 will be a 2/2.
2&3) State Based Actions are checked before anyone gets priority. SBAs will kill a (normally) 2/2 before any counters can be moved onto it to save it.
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c ]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c ] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon  [ c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 4:02PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
|
In regards to Nate, yea, my friend likes to play a simic and cytoplast mind controlling combo with a couple of primordial hydras to move around +1's as he wants to, along with a few cocoons which constantly give his cytopast alot of counters to graft with, so its a very possible scenario by the time I would get Elesh out that he could attempt to pull something like this.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 4:03PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2005
|
Hey guys, my question mainly involves Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1. Lets say my opponent has two Honor of the Pure on the field, and summons a 2/2 creature. Is there any kind of timestamp order where elesh's ability would activate and the creature would die before honor of the pure goes into effect or would they just simply nullify each other and he would enter as a 2/2?
No, static abilites like this are "always on" while the objects are in the appropriate zone. The creature will get +2/+2 from the enchantments and -2/-2 from Elesh Norn, and will enter the battlefield as a 2/2.
2. Another question kinda similar with regards to Cytoplast Manipulator . Lets say my opponent has one on the field while elesh is on my side. If he summons another, can he choose to graft one of his +1/+1's to her as she enters and thereby saving her from Elesh's effect, and making her a +1/+1?
Graft (the part that moves the counter off, anyway) is a triggered ability. The new Cytoplast Manipulator enters with two +1/+1 counters, and the "move a counter" ability on the first one triggers. Before the counter can be moved, in fact before the trigger even reaches the stack, state-based actions are checked and see the 0/0 Cytoplast, so it is put into the graveyard. (I'm assuming the first one had at least a third +1/+1 counter, or it would already be dead as well.)
3. Lets say once more my opponent chooses to summon a 2/2 and has Simic Guildmage on the field, can he say that he activates simic's ability to move a +1/+1 from one of his to the entering 2/2, thereby saving it again from Elesh's static and making it a 1/1 or does hers go into effect before that can be done?
No, Simic Guildmage's ability is an activated ability that uses the stack. The moment the 2/2 creature enters the battlefield it will get -2/-2 from Elesh Norn and be put into the graveyard (so would the Guildmage, unless you had some other way to boost its toughness.)
|
|
|
