Community

This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I want this card's art as Wallpaper.

Forget flashblack, I'm really looking forward to this with my Retrace decks.  Raven's Crime just got that much better.

This card is great for Limited, too. Build-around-me cards like Furnace Celebration traditionally had the problem that the theme would get diluted as the block progressed and you couldn't build around it anymore. I see they fixed that here, by continuing the same build-around theme with a different, complementary effect. As an uncommon in a small set, it should be very draftable.

What this deck needs, while still staying in the budget part of the 'mission', is a full set of Delvers of Secrets. With a deck with so many cards that transform it, it is really a waste to not put this little 1-2 punch creature in.

Also, it is your gameplan vs Thrun in a very good way. You just win the race and force the opponent's deck to play on the defensive.
And once you get into rare using territory. Our friendly neighbourhood Snappie of course fills the gap of the few non-flashback and expensive flashback cards.

Agree with above posters though. Great to see another flashback-using enchantment. I was just building a fun Burning Vengeance deck for this week's FNM again, and this card is sorely missed now I know it will be released in DA!

Another well-written article (I really like the card by card reasoning), and a deck that undeniably belongs in this column. Two for two in the new year, JVL. Keep up the good work.

I know this column was supposed to be about revealing one card, but Faithless Looting has already been revealed and confirmed in the card image gallery. It was silly not to go ahead and include it. I would easily cut some combination of Think Twice, Desperate Ravings, and Forbidden Alchemy to include FL as a four of. It helps you find your combo pieces, or get rid of them if you already have too many in hand, plus it fills your graveyard with the fodder you'll need later on. 

Another uncommon for this deck could be: Altar of the Lost, it replaces the grottos and it makes it a lot easier to cast any flashback. 
On the rare note: devils play is not expansive and fits the deck.
Cackling Counterpart could work against fatties, but its rare and it still cant deal with the Troll.

Anyway, nice deck.
Job well done, thanks. 

oh and Faithless Looting lets you ditch unnecessary cards in your hand.

That's a nice and fun deck to play with, even without the Secrets of the Dead ... I miss Faithless Looting indeed, i'm sure that's at least a 3-of in this deck

Jan 11, 2012 -- 12:53AM, DeEer wrote:

On the rare note: devils play is not expansive and fits the deck.
Cackling Counterpart could work against fatties, but its rare and it still cant deal with the Troll.

Cackling Counterpart can only target creatures you control.  However, I agree that Devil's Play should be in the deck (though he did say he was building it without rares).  Also, Delver should be in there too.  Without a Burning Vengeance out, the deck can only do 20 damage (8 from Geistflame and 12 from Incinerate).  I don't see how this deck could overcome a Pristine Talisman or a Timely Reinforcements if they are able to get one through the counters.
4 Desperate Ravings and 4 Think Twice seem to me to be too much - you will be drawing cards that let you draw more cards far too often.  I think that you need 4 Burning Vengeance and 3 Secrets of the Dead to be able to push through enough damage.

I think that Faithless Looting and this are what my Burning Vengeance deck needed to become competitive. Thank you Wizards. I'm so ecstatic about this card, that I'm more excited for it than for Sorin. And I second the suggestion for Delver of Secrets in his build.

Burning Vengeance is all well and good, but Gravecrawler seems completely bonkers with it. Any free sac outlet + zombie makes it a crazy efficient draw engine and Grimgrin does both of those things while doubling as a win condition thats immune to pretty much all spot removal except for GftT.

Secrets + Zombie Infestation + 2 dead Gravecrawlers lets you immediately make 6 power of zombies after a wrath for the low cost of cycling two cards for B each.

Also, makes Snapcaster a 3-for-1.

If UB zombo isn't a deck after this, I will eat my hat.

Jan 11, 2012 -- 4:45AM, DaTuck wrote:

Jan 11, 2012 -- 12:53AM, DeEer wrote:

On the rare note: devils play is not expansive and fits the deck.
Cackling Counterpart could work against fatties, but its rare and it still cant deal with the Troll.

Cackling Counterpart can only target creatures you control.  However, I agree that Devil's Play should be in the deck (though he did say he was building it without rares).  Also, Delver should be in there too.  Without a Burning Vengeance out, the deck can only do 20 damage (8 from Geistflame and 12 from Incinerate).  I don't see how this deck could overcome a Pristine Talisman or a Timely Reinforcements if they are able to get one through the counters.
4 Desperate Ravings and 4 Think Twice seem to me to be too much - you will be drawing cards that let you draw more cards far too often.  I think that you need 4 Burning Vengeance and 3 Secrets of the Dead to be able to push through enough damage.

lol missed the "you control" line...
i agree on the 4 - 3 split for Burning Vengeance. 

I can't wait to get my hands on this card. I've been running a Burning Vengeance deck that I love for awhile now, and this is only going to make it better. As for the deck, I would suggest splashing black. It gives you access to cards like Doom Blade, Tribute to Hunger (which can help take care of thrun), and Sever the Bloodline. It also makes it easier to flashback Forbidden Alchemy. Unfortunately, the mana base can get kinda expensive, as you start getting into some dual lands, but it definitely makes it easier to deal with more threats. 

Dear Wizards of the Coast,

Please fire Jacob Van Lunen.  His decks are consistently terrible.  I only read his article becasue it makes me laugh at what a horrible deck builder he is.

Jan 11, 2012 -- 11:04PM, firelunen wrote:

Dear Wizards of the Coast,

Please fire Jacob Van Lunen.  His decks are consistently terrible.  I only read his article becasue it makes me laugh at what a horrible deck builder he is.

It's a good thing you were so specific and constructive with your criticism or people might not have paid it any attention.

Jan 11, 2012 -- 11:04PM, firelunen wrote:

Dear Wizards of the Coast,

Please fire Jacob Van Lunen.  His decks are consistently terrible.  I only read his article becasue it makes me laugh at what a horrible deck builder he is.

Some Trolls have hexproof and some trolls are just trolls....

Jan 11, 2012 -- 11:04PM, firelunen wrote:

Dear Wizards of the Coast,

Please fire Jacob Van Lunen.  His decks are consistently terrible.  I only read his article becasue it makes me laugh at what a horrible deck builder he is.

Trollololol. Maybe time to actually show your actual account instead of making a new one to specifically slam him.

If you have a problem, say it. If you have no specific ideas, shut up and let the rest of us discuss. We aren't all geniuses who can come up with tier 1 decks in out sleep, and neither is he. Unless I'm very mistaken, he was the first one to really point out that Burning Vengeance control decks could actually work.

Heck, post me an original, rogue decklist that you've managed to take undefeated forever at a PTQ or even just vs. pre-ban Caw Blade/Exarch Twin, and I'll take it back.

Until you do that, shut up.

And making a new account just to post that you want one author fired smacks of cowardice.

Lets discuss the specific problems of the deck at hand.  If you add up all the damage in the deck without burning vengance being online the deck cna only deal twenty damage.  It essentially gets whupped by anyone who is running enchant removal or anyone who can stick a fatty.

yeah this deck sucks. And I completely agree with Firelunen. Every deck I have ever played that this guy has posted to the building on a budget has completly sucked. This one for instance, I JUST built to maybe take to a standard this satuday. Forget that. I play tested it against a werewolf deck I buit and I was TROMPED. I had absolutly nothing to do. I drew a few cards, killed one reckless waif with a geistflame, and that was it. I didn't even have time to get the burning vengeance out. And that's the only win condition in the whole deck. Yes I know that I didn't have the blue card from Dark Ascension but lets face it, if I can't get burning vengeance out what good is it guna do me? I relplaced it with delver of secrets and he is the only thing that dealt damage in every game I played. And that was a grand total of 3. 

Jan 12, 2012 -- 12:14PM, hunterstreet13 wrote:

yeah this deck sucks. And I completely agree with Firelunen. Every deck I have ever played that this guy has posted to the building on a budget has completly sucked. This one for instance, I JUST built to maybe take to a standard this satuday. Forget that. I play tested it against a werewolf deck I buit and I was TROMPED. I had absolutly nothing to do. I drew a few cards, killed one reckless waif with a geistflame, and that was it. I didn't even have time to get the burning vengeance out. And that's the only win condition in the whole deck. Yes I know that I didn't have the blue card from Dark Ascension but lets face it, if I can't get burning vengeance out what good is it guna do me? I relplaced it with delver of secrets and he is the only thing that dealt damage in every game I played. And that was a grand total of 3. 

Then the troll met a sockpuppet, and the two had hot, raunchy sex all over his dad's Miata.

Jan 12, 2012 -- 7:15PM, Qilong wrote:

Jan 12, 2012 -- 12:14PM, hunterstreet13 wrote:

yeah this deck sucks. And I completely agree with Firelunen. Every deck I have ever played that this guy has posted to the building on a budget has completly sucked. This one for instance, I JUST built to maybe take to a standard this satuday. Forget that. I play tested it against a werewolf deck I buit and I was TROMPED. I had absolutly nothing to do. I drew a few cards, killed one reckless waif with a geistflame, and that was it. I didn't even have time to get the burning vengeance out. And that's the only win condition in the whole deck. Yes I know that I didn't have the blue card from Dark Ascension but lets face it, if I can't get burning vengeance out what good is it guna do me? I relplaced it with delver of secrets and he is the only thing that dealt damage in every game I played. And that was a grand total of 3. 

Then the troll met a sockpuppet, and the two had hot, raunchy sex all over his dad's Miata.

ok you think it's a good deck? Please explain to me why you think this. Instead of making stupid jokes just tell me why I am wrong and why you are right.

Jan 12, 2012 -- 7:21PM, hunterstreet13 wrote:

Jan 12, 2012 -- 7:15PM, Qilong wrote:

Jan 12, 2012 -- 12:14PM, hunterstreet13 wrote:

yeah this deck sucks. And I completely agree with Firelunen. Every deck I have ever played that this guy has posted to the building on a budget has completly sucked. This one for instance, I JUST built to maybe take to a standard this satuday. Forget that. I play tested it against a werewolf deck I buit and I was TROMPED. I had absolutly nothing to do. I drew a few cards, killed one reckless waif with a geistflame, and that was it. I didn't even have time to get the burning vengeance out. And that's the only win condition in the whole deck. Yes I know that I didn't have the blue card from Dark Ascension but lets face it, if I can't get burning vengeance out what good is it guna do me? I relplaced it with delver of secrets and he is the only thing that dealt damage in every game I played. And that was a grand total of 3. 

Then the troll met a sockpuppet, and the two had hot, raunchy sex all over his dad's Miata.

ok you think it's a good deck? Please explain to me why you think this. Instead of making stupid jokes just tell me why I am wrong and why you are right.

Do not attribute things to me that I did not say; what I said is right up there in the post immediately before your latest/first. I said nothing about the deck.

Jan 11, 2012 -- 5:12AM, Double-Negative wrote:

I think that Faithless Looting and this are what my Burning Vengeance deck needed to become competitive. Thank you Wizards. I'm so ecstatic about this card, that I'm more excited for it than for Sorin. And I second the suggestion for Delver of Secrets in his build.

Uh, I was just going to post a reply when I realized this person said what I was going to say and no doubt said it better!  I'm really liking the latest BoaB decks.

Simple Question: Is this deck standard worthy or not?
I mean, its going to be my first standard tournament soon and i was planning on using this deck. Do i stand a chance? And are there any cards that should be replaced? (without spending too much dosh)

Thanks!

Feb 6, 2012 -- 8:08AM, WarlockPayn wrote:

Simple Question: Is this deck standard worthy or not?
I mean, its going to be my first standard tournament soon and i was planning on using this deck. Do i stand a chance? And are there any cards that should be replaced? (without spending too much dosh)

Thanks!

You are looking at the wrong article if you want good standard decks.  Although BoaB is getting closer to what you want with the current author, Top Decks is more of what you are looking for.  You might get somewhere with the decks that are on here but you aren't likely going to reach the top with them unless no one at the tournament plays what are considered the top tier decks.

Hey, thanks for the honest response.
I have been taking a look at the Top Decks department but it doesn't have enough/any standard decks i like. Looks to me like its alot of Modern and legacy talk (which im not interested in, at ALL )

I dont need to be top 8 either, though. I just need a deck that gives me chance to get like 16th or something in a 50-player tournament.
Most of the Top Decks also cost aloooooooot of dosh, too much for someone like me sadly.