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Magic: The Gathering Rules Theory and T.. Oracle/Gatherer Errors and Fixes - Avacyn Restored
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Locked: Oracle/Gatherer Errors and Fixes - Avacyn Restored
1 year ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 2:12PM #301
KyCygni
Date Joined: Dec 29, 2010
Posts: 824
Hull Breach seemed convoluted in a commander game the other day and I finally remembered this card:

Soul Manipulation

Wouldn't it be so much nicer to say: "Choose one or both -- Destroy target artifact; and/or destroy target enchantment."?
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 2:15PM #302
cyphern
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2003
Posts: 17,646
They actually gave Hull Breach exactly that errata back in January 2009. Then it was pointed out that this was a functional change, so they reverted it in April 2009. The problem is that if you make it a modal spell and choose both modes, the destruction will be sequential. The printed text has the destruction simultaneous.

For an example where this makes a difference: A player controls Dingus Staff and Lucent Liminid . Hull Breach is then cast targetting both of them. With the printed text, dingus staff will trigger and the player will take 2 damage. If the spell was modal, dingus staff is destroyed first and cannot trigger when lucent liminid is destroyed.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 2:25PM #303
KyCygni
Date Joined: Dec 29, 2010
Posts: 824
Cursed thwarting enchantment creature... :P

I take it they didn't like the idea of just making it so that modal spells (when you choose more than one mode) effectively add an "and" in between all sets of modes, thus making them all simultaneous?
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 2:28PM #304
cyphern
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2003
Posts: 17,646

Apr 2, 2012 -- 2:25PM, KyCygni wrote:


I take it they didn't like the idea of just making it so that modal spells (when you choose more than one mode) effectively add an "and" in between all sets of modes, thus making them all simultaneous?


First, the inclusion of an "and"  would not make it simultaneous. It's the number of verbs that matter, not the conjunctions used. Second, they wouldn't want to make modes simultaneous, at least not by default, because some cards are deliberately make use of the fact that modes are sequential. For example, it is no accident that Primal Command has the "shuffle a graveyard into the library" mode before the "search your library for a creature card" mode.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 6:42PM #305
Nyktos
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 3,335
A lot of entwine spells would work really unintuitively if that change were made, too: Grab the Reins wouldn't let you sac the creature you steal, Plunge into Darkness wouldn't let you pay the life you gain, Promise of Power wouldn't count the cards draw toward the demon's P/T, and Tooth and Nail more or less wouldn't work at all for its main purpose.
blah blah metal lyrics
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 03, 2012 - 4:35PM #306
WotC_MattT
  • Legit
Date Joined: Aug 9, 2007
Posts: 530
Thanks everyone for their suggestions and discussion. It's time to start working on the AVR update, so this thread will be closed as soon as I can someone to do that.

Have fun!
Magic: The Gathering Rules Manager
Wizards of the Coast

Follow me @TabakRules
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