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1 year ago ::
Dec 21, 2011 - 5:44AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2011
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Maybe I haven't seen too many good red burn decks... but it seems like you have to utilize everything perfectly to pull off something as simple as a kill. Granted four lightning bolts (which is considered the best red card of all time) is only four red cards for twelve damage. Its not likely to see all four of them, probably not even two.
Once red becomes outraced it becomes an uphill battle. And the strategy of a burn deck hurts your card options. This weakness is especially bad when your opponent is running card tempo since you have to fully functionalize every card just to achieve the 20 damage mark.
Are their any ultra efficient red burn cards other than lightning bolt that help with this? Shock seems like its too weak to run competetively
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1 year ago ::
Dec 21, 2011 - 6:13AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 24, 2011
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Red Deck Wins is just all of the best red cards in the format in a deck, tuned for manacurve and sometimes colour splashes  or artefacts  that pumps out pressure until one player dies or the gas is gone. It's the only really competitive monocoloured deck in standard.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 21, 2011 - 6:17AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2003
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Bolt is most definitely the champion of efficiency, but the most powerful red card ever printed? I could easily make an argument for Wheel of Fortune  .
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1 year ago ::
Dec 21, 2011 - 12:43PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2010
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If you put together the best burn spells in Standard, in order to fill up a deck you have to start including burn cards that are weak enough that they make your deck slower than if you included some super-efficient creatures; generally the fastest deck you can make with red is not going to be a pure burn deck. Now, if you want to leave Standard, you can make a pretty freaking fast burn deck, but then you have to deal with much better decks. Chain Lightning  and Lava Spike  can be considered Lightning Bolt  s 5 through 12. Or Bump in the Night  for 16 if you're willing to splash.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 21, 2011 - 3:57PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2011
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I think part of the problem is Wizards has made a concentrated effort to move to more creature based decks. That means that the true burn decks aren't going to be as viable to play. Part of the problem is that with Phyrexian mana, the precendent has been set that 1 colored mana equals 2 life. If you look at all the newer burn spells, they've only reprinted spells that deal 2 damage for R ( Shock  , Galvanic Blast  ), at least on average. Though, Brimstone Volley  can be nasty if used right. I keep hoping that a U/R burn deck will show up. Seems to me that Burning Vengeance  + Snapcaster Mage  + Past in Flames  could be pretty awesome. Throw in all the keep blue spells with flashback, plus all the burn spells, and you're looking at a lot of potential damage.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 21, 2011 - 9:47PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2008
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In Legacy, Burn is actually a competitively viable deck.
Burn generally isn't too viable in Standard though, due to a lack of good spells, and in Vintage, where the entire metagame is too fast for it to handle.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 21, 2011 - 10:43PM
#7
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Are their any ultra efficient red burn cards other than lightning bolt that help with this? Shock seems like its too weak to run competetively
If you're talking Standard, then you're right: pure burn isn't consistent. You probably want more of a Red Deck Wins strategy, which stomps with creatures, then finishes with burn. Chandra's Phoenix  is an essential right now.
If you're talking more open formats ... you generally use something like Pyromancer Ascension  , or a Furnace of Rath  style effect to get the job done. Lightning Bolt alone won't do the job, but recursing bolts, or casting bolts that deal double or triple damage ... that works a bit better :-) Add blue for shenanigans, if you don't want to be strict about the red part. (Storm stuff works pretty well, too, though then you're getting more into a "storm" deck than a "burn" deck.)
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1 year ago ::
Dec 23, 2011 - 2:17PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2010
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Lava Spike has other options. I mean, it is something you can splice other stuff on too. I'll add this: Turn 1: Mountain  Turn 2: Mountain , Mycosynth Wellspring  Turn 3: Kuldotha Rebirth  , Goblin Grenade  , Reverberate  Hilariously, during one tournament, a guy tried to counter me, and I said "That's nice, I have a counterspell too." and then he says red doesn't get counterspells. Then I tap two mountains, and... (Sure, it can only counter a counter, and not Remove Soul  or Hydroblast  , but it is a counter.)
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
----
Autocard is your friend.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] = Lightning Bolt
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1 year ago ::
Dec 23, 2011 - 3:35PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2006
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mycosynth wellspring just seems worse than ichor wellspring  for that deck. also you can't play all that turn three. wellspring puts the land in your hand, not the battlefield. 
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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1 year ago ::
Dec 23, 2011 - 6:30PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2007
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rift bolt  and fireblast  are actually lightning bolts 13-16 and 17-20. Then you have to start worrying about 2 mana spells and fake lightning bolts that are pretending to be creatures such as spark elemental  and hellspark elemental  . Somewhat hard to use them unless he taps out though since you just know the opponent is sitting on a hand of creature removal. For the same reason you frequently want to be running manlands of some type. Some of the zendikar ones are very effective at cranking the damage when the other guy is tapped out. Without punishing fire  and grove of the burnwillows  it is back to the hammer I guess. If I was going to play burn it would look something like this, 4 lightning bolt  4 chain lightning  4 rift bolt 4 lava spike  4 fireblast 4 incinerate  4 searing blaze  4 blightning  4 Hammer of Bogardan  4 lightning axe  4 lavaclaw reaches  4 blood crypt  12 mountain 
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