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Switch to Forum Live View 10/27/2011 FtL: "Darts: Innistrad"
2 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2011 - 11:00AM #11
SadisticMystic
Date Joined: Aug 6, 2003
Posts: 1,114
There's nothing about tokens that prevents them from being shuffled into a library, but then once they're there they can't come out except by heading off to Nonexistence Land which they go to practically immediately. It's still enough to make an "if you do" check succeed.

In the case of a token copy of Mirror-Mad Phantasm, even if the copy effect is innate (from something like Cackling Counterpart , as opposed to being a temporary effect from something like Cytoshape ), the token owner will just keep flipping cards into the grave unless they have an actual MMP card somewhere in the deck. This is because the effect tells the player to "reveal cards from the top of the library", and the token isn't a card so it's never taken into consideration.
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2011 - 11:01AM #12
DazeRyuken
Date Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Posts: 78
Mirror-Mad Phantasm is more crafty than I'd thought!  That's some interaction.
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2011 - 3:42PM #13
carcher
Date Joined: Jul 15, 2011
Posts: 76
there are much better ways of using the mirror mad combo, which include [c]evil twin[c/] or [c]phantasmal image[c/]. they are much cheaper to use and have a higher chance of being drawn if you play 4 of each. with [c]evil twin[c/], the black element allows you to use [c]diabolic tutor[c/] or some other tutor card to make things even easier. Although the one downside to it is that you need [c]laboratory maniac[c/] to win. On the upside you get to use it in block constructed :D
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2011 - 3:45PM #14
RedFebtober
Date Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 1
you cant stop lands from producing mana. its a rule that got added to counter humility\living lands lock down
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2011 - 4:37PM #15
GreenBuster
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2008
Posts: 889

Oct 27, 2011 -- 3:45PM, RedFebtober wrote:

you cant stop lands from producing mana. its a rule that got added to counter humility\living lands lock down




Please post the rule you are referring to.

If you look on the Gatherer entry for Stony Silence it says "

9/22/2011 Mana abilities of artifacts also can't be activated.

".  As we have artifact lands even without this combo I assume that it referrs to them as well.

Also, the Gatherer entry for Humility has this part.  " 
2/1/2007 Removes all creature abilities. This includes mana abilities. Animated lands will also lose the ability to tap for mana.

"
I have also checked the comprehensive rulebook under 'Activating activated abilities", "Lands", and "Mana abilities" and found no entry that allows a land to create mana if it's ability can't be activated.

If you know of a rule that allows lands to use their mana abilities despite being unable to do so when they are also artifacts and Stony Silence is out please post the source.  
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2011 - 4:57PM #16
aDubiousNotion
Date Joined: Sep 9, 2010
Posts: 2

Oct 27, 2011 -- 3:45PM, RedFebtober wrote:

you cant stop lands from producing mana. its a rule that got added to counter humility\living lands lock down




I think you're confusing it with the fact that mana abilities don't use the stack and so can't be countered.  There's nothing that says you can't prevent them from being activated in the first place though.

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 29, 2011 - 7:21PM #17
GabeTheAlmighty
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2006
Posts: 30
I love that use of MMP. Although, unless I'm mistaken, that combo won't work with Forbidden Orchard because the controller of Forbidden Orchard puts the token into play, and therefore he is the owner of the token, even though he has put it into play under his opponent's control. No?
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2011 - 12:37AM #18
Jakusotsu
Date Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 380

Oct 29, 2011 -- 7:21PM, GabeTheAlmighty wrote:

I love that use of MMP. Although, unless I'm mistaken, that combo won't work with Forbidden Orchard because the controller of Forbidden Orchard puts the token into play, and therefore he is the owner of the token, even though he has put it into play under his opponent's control. No?


I'm not sure, but I think I remember reading somewhere that a token's owner is the player under whose control it entered the battlefield.

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 30, 2011 - 2:24AM #19
SadisticMystic
Date Joined: Aug 6, 2003
Posts: 1,114
This changed with M10: now if you give an opponent a token, they own that token. So while Varchild's War-Riders + Brand and Hunted Dragon + Warp World stopped being combos, this becomes one.
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2011 - 1:05PM #20
JNSiQwa0
Date Joined: Jul 6, 2011
Posts: 38

Please pardon the fanfic. As always, Wizards and Noel, thanks for the inspiration!

Mycostone

The nature of a planeswalker is that of a being intimately connected to and in touch with the energies of existence which envelop and bind all things, one to another. All the power of a planeswalker, their very life, is defined by their relationship to and control over the threads of mana which weave reality together.


At least, such is true for most planeswalkers. Not so this one. He loathes mana. He is allergic to it and to the very fundaments of life itself. Merely living among the energies of the world leaves him distracted and irritable, nauseous and feverish, his body aching and his skin sore with hives. Magic has caused his entire life to be defined by inescapable illness.


But he has a plan. He has found a small, nearly empty plane, almost all secluded steppes and featureless plains with only a handful of ancient ruins, untouched for eons, dotting the blank uniformity. The immense age of the plane and the untold millennia of its abandonment has already left it drained of much of its natural energy. Unsatisfied with this, however, the planeswalker has also buried nodes of enchanted porphyry in various places around the plane which are slowly, imperceptibly, draining all the life's essence out of the few native creatures that still call the plane home. Soon, the plane will be scoured of all but the faintest hint of mana itself. But the planeswalker will go even further.


He has acquired a small sample of something precious. A synthetic fungus, mycosynth, quick-growing and nearly devoid of mana properties itself. Where mana dies, mycosynth thrives. He has planted cuttings of this mycosynth all over his pocket plane and now simply plays the waiting game for it to devour all that it touches. And when the entire plane is made sterile mycosynth, he shall summon an eternal, stony silence upon the world and purge it of all mana once and forever. Then, will he finally be free of the curse he could cure by no other means.


Self Loathing
This planeswalker, too, bears a curse, although one he is proud of. A fire elemental, he comes from a plane where his kind is an endangered species. The dragons of his world nourish themselves on ash and flame and their favorite cuisine is elemental flambé. The elementals are cursed to be hunted by all that find them, either by the dragons themselves or by those who wish to curry favor with the wyrms.


But this planeswalker's people have long fought the dragons and hunted them in return. They use the strength of their curse to their advantage and know how to manipulate the dragons with its power, even to turn them against their own scaled kin. So it has been for generations upon generations.


Until this planeswalker's spark ignited. When he finally returned to his homeplane, he gathered his people about him, many several lives removed from the peers he had once known in his youth, and told them his plan. There were worlds beyond this one. Many worlds. And they were to escape to them. He would lead them.


Many refused to leave. No matter how dangerous and unwelcoming, this world was still their home. But nearly as many chose to follow the planeswalker into the unknown.


Now, he and his kin wander the multiverse as a free company of dragonslayers and dragonslavers. Where they find a need for their services, they ply their trade at a high price, but they always deliver on their promises. And where they find no need for their services, they ply them anyway just for the pleasure of the hunt.


Give up the Ghost
Despite what some would have you believe, transfiguration is not an easy discipline. One can't simply wave a wand around and transform a teacup into a mouse or something. One must have detailed, exhaustive knowledge of every element and component that comprises both forms and must also know the means of replacing each element with its precise, respective complement, in what order and in what configuration.


This planeswalker knows all about that. He has spent the majority of his life studying the nature of transfiguration. He is very familiar with what it means to reshape a thing in its matter and essence and also with what happens when the process is reversed.


More recently, however, he has become deeply fascinated not so much with the transformation of one thing into another, but of nothing into something or even of something into nothing. This is a new frontier for him, one which he is highly excited to explore.


Unfortunately for many of his early test subjects, they have fared less well than has his own enthusiasm. His chambers of manipulation are now haunted by the mad phantasms of unsuccessful experiments (or, perhaps, highly successful, depending on the definition of the experiment) and great, slavering beasts keep unexpectedly bursting through of the surfaces of his breeding pools at the most inconvenient moments.


He's even started to see ghosts, or perhaps things even less substantial, flitting in and out of the branches of his private orchard. He should really stop letting all these minor concerns distract him from his work, he thinks as he walks back down into his woodland lab.


But first things first, he says to himself. I'll have to take down all these mirrors all over the place. I don't even remember what experiment I hung them for anymore and I always feel like I'm being watched through them when I turn my back.


And he thought that to himself anew every single day until the ghosts finally showed him just how far his work in the transfiguration of matter into nothingness had come.

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