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Locked: [Archetype] Red Deck Wins - RDW
2 years ago  ::  Oct 13, 2011 - 9:54PM #31
krazypunk1018
Date Joined: Jan 31, 2010
Posts: 630
Ok so I was able to get some cards on modo to make RDW I haven't gotten Stromkirk Nobles cause I believe their price will go down a little on modo.

Here's my list.
Creatures 
3 x Grim Lavamancer
2 x Spikeshot Elder
3 x Reckless Waif
2 x Goblin Arsonist
4 x Stormblood Berserker
3 x Chandra's Phoenix
2 x Hero of Oxid Ridge

Non Creatures 
4 x Gut Shot
3 x Shock
4 x Shrine of Burning Rage
2 x Arc Trail
3 x Incinerate
4 x Brimstone Volley

Lands 
4 x Rootbound Crag
17 x Mountain 


I want to run some Ancient Grudges and Traiorous Blood in the side for sure but I want ppl's opinion about the base of the deck and Need a little help with a sideboard. My problem is sometimes i know what to side in but don't know what to side out.

Please and Thank you for anyone who helps, It will be gladly appreciated.
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 1:11AM #32
Manjimaru
Date Joined: Apr 20, 2010
Posts: 1,831
When I last played RDW with 23 lands and 4 Koth's, I lost 3 games to manaflood and 1 to stupidity cause I tilted with my manaflooding. I since put 22 lands in the deck.

I think the second best 1-drop is furnace scamp, since its basically flat 4 damage as a 1-drop against same decks against which waif is good. It also basically always triggers brimstone volley, its either blocked and dies or goes through and is sacced. I used to underestimate scamp but now I value it more.

Also I like volt charge as 3cc burn since it is not as conditional as volley. I found that my early RDW versions tended to either kick ass or fail hard, and I wanted to reduce the conditional spells because of this. Volt charge also improves noble, berserker, shrine (adding two counters is huge) and Koth, allowing Koth to fire ultimate right after you play him on the next turn. Volt charge is deceptively good with the right cards. However volt charge fights for the same spot as brimstone volley, and I think 4 and 2 is the right number. Multiple volleys are less good than you'd think. Imagine this:
1st turn noble, 2nd turn noble hits and grows, firstpick berserker with 2 counters, 3rd turn volt charge blocker or opponent, proliferate, hit for 7. I also won one game by protecting shrine from ratchet bomb with volt charge.

I also think you guys should try devil's play. At worst its a 2cc geistflame, but it can be the last damage needed in the lategame against control etc. Especially if you play with Koths. Koth and 4 lands = 7 damage to the head with devils play with the chance to flashback.

Heres what I got so far, even though Im playing bant pod tonight:
4 stromkirk noble
4 furnace scamp
4 grim lavamancer (lavamancer gets slightly better with scamp)
4 firstpick berserker
2 chandra's phoenix
4 shrine of burning rage
4 volt charge
4 incinerate (arc trail is a metagame call)
2 brimstone volley
2 devil's play
either 4 Koth or 3 koth+1 hero or something
22 mountain

I tried running RG duals for ancient grudge and Kessig wolf run, and I never got to use wolf run. I think monored with manic vandals might be better.

I also think that manabarbs might be a good sideboard card again.
"And the word my father taught me that evening, the word meaning 'the strongest', was mage."
- Tezzeret the seeker, Test of Metal
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 1:44AM #33
wdrewh1983
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 480
Manabarbs is good against control and solarflare. Decks that like to tap out and tap for counters. Other than that. It's meh.
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 3:30AM #34
CyrusBales
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,267

Oct 13, 2011 -- 5:16PM, MrIndigo wrote:

@Alien: Are you aware that the banner in your signature has spelled your username incorrectly?

My current RDW list:

// Lands
    12 [IN] Mountain (4)
    4 [M11] Rootbound Crag
    4 [SOM] Copperline Gorge
    2 [INN] Kessig Wolf Run

// Creatures
    4 [INN] Stromkirk Noble
    4 [INN] Reckless Waif
   4 [M12] Stormblood Berserker
    3 [MBS] Hero of Oxid Ridge
    3 [M12] Chandra's Phoenix
    2 [M12] Goblin Fireslinger

// Spells
    4 [NPH] Shrine of Burning Rage
    4 [MPR] Incinerate
    4 [NPH] Volt Charge
    2 [SOM] Koth of the Hammer
    4 [NPH] Gut Shot

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOM] Koth of the Hammer
SB: 3 [NPH] Vulshok Refugee
SB: 3 [SOM] Arc Trail
SB: 4 [INN] Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 [INN] Traitorous Blood



 




22 lands and five four drops seems a little heavy on the curve, and makes wolf run activations less likely as well. Not playing Brimstone Volley(one of the reasons the one drop guys are so strong) seems like an error. Gut Shot is a card that has zero value in a lot of match ups, and in the mirror is often a good way to lose the race. Against the mirror, they'll be packing big five point burn whilst you are wasting a card to hit for one damage, yes it can be good agaisnt dudes, but if you are losing two life to do it, you are often just accomplishing what the creature would do anyway, giving them a shock with a built in discard effect. And if you hardcast it, you lose tempo, wheras at least geistflame gets double usage if you give up tempo. You don't need gut shot for pod or humans either, and it's dead versus control(using two cards to make a 3/3 beserker on turn 2 for example is playing right into their game plan), and solar flare will just timely into a big threat, since your damage spells are netting you less and making you rely on getting to four mana and having hero.

SB looks pretty good at least.

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 4:04AM #35
rippeddl
Date Joined: Sep 4, 2011
Posts: 26

Oct 14, 2011 -- 1:11AM, Manjimaru wrote:

Also I like volt charge as 3cc burn since it is not as conditional as volley. I found that my early RDW versions tended to either kick ass or fail hard, and I wanted to reduce the conditional spells because of this. Volt charge also improves noble, berserker, shrine (adding two counters is huge) and Koth, allowing Koth to fire ultimate right after you play him on the next turn. Volt charge is deceptively good with the right cards.




Volt Charge is still conditional.  Yes, it will always proliferate, but you must have something on the board that will benefit from the proliferation.  On top of that, you must then get a chance to use the additional counters.  Proliferating a Stormblood Berserker right before it gets hit by Dismember or proliferating a Shrine of Burning Rage right before an Ancient Grudge isn't going to help.  That said, I love proliferate.  I don't think that someone can really make a bad choice when choosing between Volt Charge or Volley.

Some other notes on the RDW as a whole:

Grim Lavamancer took a big hit when it lost the fetches.  Now with Geistflame in some main decks and Ancient Grudge in the sideboard, it starts losing even more power.  I find either Gut Shot or Galvanic Blast to be better 1cc burns and Manic Vandal as better artifact hate in a deck that relies on the Lavamancer.

I'm not a fan of Kessig Wolf Run .  Splashing green with Rootbound Crag is fine if I just have it for Ancient Grudge in the SB, but once I start putting Kessig in the MD, I find I kind of need Copperline Gorge in addition to the Crags.  This starts making my mana base less reliable as I am now running 9 or 10 non-mountains.

Finally, I'm surprised Perilous Myr wasn't mentioned in the first post as a SB option for the mirror.  It deals with the Refugee and raises the chances you can trigger metalcraft on Galvanic Blast (lol, maybe from 0.1% to 0.4%, but hey, better is better!)

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 4:25AM #36
AlienFinger79
Date Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 2,444

Oct 13, 2011 -- 5:16PM, MrIndigo wrote:

@Alien: Are you aware that the banner in your signature has spelled your username incorrectly?



Yep. I didn't want to be a jerk about it. =)

I'm currently trying out Cyrus' suggestion of siding in Phoenixes. My list looks like this:

// Lands
    13 [LOR] Mountain
    4 [M10] Rootbound Crag
    4 [SOM] Copperline Gorge
    2 [INN] Kessig Wolf Run

// Creatures
    4 [INN] Stromkirk Noble
    3 [SOM] Spikeshot Elder
    2 [M12] Grim Lavamancer
    4 [M12] Stormblood Berserker
    3 [MBS] Hero of Oxid Ridge


// Spells
    4 [NPH] Shrine of Burning Rage
    4 [MPR] Incinerate
    2 [SOM] Arc Trail
    3 [NPH] Volt Charge
    4 [INN] Brimstone Volley
    2 [SOM] Koth of the Hammer
    2 [INN] Geistflame


// Sideboard
SB: 4 [INN] Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 [M12] Chandra's Phoenix
SB: 3 [NPH] Vulshok Refugee
SB: 2 [SOM] Arc Trail
SB: 3 [INN] Traitorous Blood

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Jun 5, 2010 -- 6:06AM, fenthing wrote:

Moral of the story... Serra is the kind of angel you marry... She's very loyal and always there for you both to attack or block. BSA... Well, she's the kind you call up every now and then to do all those things Serra won't do on some random Friday night.


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[QUOTE=sisomic;17973044]A "You win, sir." from Momo is worth 10 zillion dabloons. If only you could sell it...[/QUOTE]

There were others - this one was just the only one that mattered.



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1000th post on August 28, 2009 at 6:08PM
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 4:31AM #37
wdrewh1983
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 480
Alien, how's the 3/4 split on volley and charge working for you? Seems like alot of 3cmc there.

Also, 8 non basic mountains. Seems like you wouldn't want Koth in your list. Have you thought bout just running 2 copperline gorge?
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 4:33AM #38
wdrewh1983
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 480
Sorry for double post. Using cell phone.

This is to alien again. Why no gutshots? I know gueistflame is good, especially with phoenix, but since you phoenixes are in the sb, how well is it working md?
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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 4:42AM #39
CyrusBales
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,267

Geistflame is often card advantage, but it pumps shrine, which is fine. 2 in the MD is a fine number. Gut Shot is just pretty weak on the whole as I mentioned earlier.

Alien's build hasn't got lots of three drops, because he just has the burn, dropping the pheonix to the SB so he actually has 7 three drops and spikeshot activation, which isn't that much considering most lists run 8 three drops.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html

For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join!

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2 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 5:06AM #40
AlienFinger79
Date Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 2,444
What Cyrus said.

Also, 13 Mountains are enough to make Koth very scary indeed.

I agree that Geistflame gets a lot better with the opportunity to recur Phoenixes, but in the MU's where recurring Phoenixes really matter, I'm siding them in anyway.

Geistflame, Gut Shot, Galvanic Blast and Shock are all pretty weak in RDW. Thing is, you really, really want a 1cc burn spell - not having one is a huge tempo detriment a lot of the time. We don't have Lightning Bolt or Burst Lightning anymore, though, so we need to think about our other options.

Two Geistflames MD seemed like the best option in the current meta. I'm not really that scared by any x/2's. Mirran Crusader can be tough and if Humans take off, maybe Hamlet Captain. Still, neither are hard to handle with my MD, so I went with Geistflame.

Maybe I'll have to bump them to three in order to really get the tempo advantage needed. I don't know. I wouldn't like it, though. If we had access to Seal of Fire or something else powerful like Burst Lightning or something, I'd run it as a 4-of, no questions asked.
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Banner by zpikduM

Quotes Show

Comment to the card Nurturer Initiate:
[QUOTE=phaseshifter;15594671]She can suck as much as she wants, she's hot

Edit:.....wow, I just realised what I just said...[/QUOTE]
---------
[QUOTE=reedbee]I can't count on both hands the number of times I've woken up next to a gorgeous girl after she came up to me and asked to get a better look at my Wumpus.[/QUOTE]
----
[QUOTE=Beanman1000;17774354]Naw man, you just walk around with a messenger bag with a trade binder and some decks, then use amazing magic pick up lines like "Hey baby, I'd tap that" and "Hey honey, wanna see me use giant growth?"[/QUOTE]
----
[QUOTE=Dr_Kraid;18066052]I want to be banned for laying my ween0r on my opponent's deck and posting pictures on the Internet [/QUOTE]
----
On Master Transmuter:
[QUOTE=namdoolb;18132994]Nah,  I'd rather send her packing on my flame javelin .[/QUOTE]
----
[QUOTE=Caldera42;14735749]And I'm not a jerk to myself.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Islands;14771286]You're missing out.[/QUOTE]
----
[QUOTE=Axl_Strife;17032267]I'm Matt Gottlieb b*tch! *banhammer*[/QUOTE]

Jun 5, 2010 -- 6:06AM, fenthing wrote:

Moral of the story... Serra is the kind of angel you marry... She's very loyal and always there for you both to attack or block. BSA... Well, she's the kind you call up every now and then to do all those things Serra won't do on some random Friday night.


Ego-sig assemble! Show
[QUOTE=Momo;17971299]Actually you win, sir.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sisomic;17973044]A "You win, sir." from Momo is worth 10 zillion dabloons. If only you could sell it...[/QUOTE]

There were others - this one was just the only one that mattered.



Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession
Check out the first one of my songs to be recorded by my Jazz/Fusion/whatever-band.
Critique is welcome - just send me a PM or something.

1000th post on August 28, 2009 at 6:08PM
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