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1 year ago ::
Feb 29, 2012 - 10:28PM
#191
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i'm going to have to agree with mrindigo on this one... this last sentence shows that you lack understanding of how the deck works.. the deck would be incredibly different if the 2 lands that gave it its name were removed. it would be a fundamental change to how the deck plays.
I guess I see the deck differently then you guys do. To me a great deck shouldn't relie on just two cards for its name or ach type. The deck in its purest form is a ramp deck. There is no changeing it. Yeah if you remove the two lands from the deck that not only give you that edge for either extra DMg or a way to kill with infect from the deck it still doesn't stop it from being a ramp deck. If its not a ramp deck arch type then tell why is it in all the articles I seen or even read it's called a ramp deck. Now I have seen this deck top out in a ptq or it was a grand pre for either starcitygames or normal circte with only 3 green titans. Yeah it didn't win. But I ask you do you not think that. By running 4 gsz that I could use only 3 I mean in theory I'm having the chane at getting the green Titan 4 times either with gsz or playing the card itself. Am I wrong for this logical way of thinking. Yeah green Titan is a great card and a must in the deck. I'm just trying to find different ways to use not only what is in the deck but to have some fun with it.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 01, 2012 - 3:11AM
#192
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True, its called a ramp deck. But theres a reason why those two other words, wolf run, are in there. Kessig is the reason this deck is playable in standard. Its why Conley Woods splashed red in his black green ramp version. It gives all your critters the potential for reach so they can get the damage in there to win the game. In playing with out them, you severely handicap yourself. It would be like playing caw/blade without squadron hawk. Can you play without them? Sure. Should you? No. For a professional to splash a third color just so he could play the card should tell you how great it is.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 01, 2012 - 9:59AM
#193
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That is a good point. One I do agree with. With the land count for this deck I've seen it low as 23-27 lands what is the best number of lands do you want in this deck? Why should I cut my gsz from4-3/2?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 01, 2012 - 3:27PM
#194
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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u can do fine with 25 lands. i run 4 gsz in my deck along with 4 hunts, 4 titans, 4 slags and a whipflare. i ended up cutting acidic slime and i dont have a thrun to play so that netted me slots.. slime just never presented itself as needed in my meta. then again my sb is completly different as well. as i run 1 whipflare, 2 rachet bombs 2 glissa's, and 2 urabrask' and wurmcoils. off the top of my head.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 01, 2012 - 3:45PM
#195
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2003
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Actually, it's fair to say that the deck would play out almost identically if you didn't have the Inkmoths/Wolf Runs. It's ramp, then bombs.
But why wouldn't you? It adds a huge amount of inevitability and a nearly unassailable late game with very little lost to consistency of the manabase.
I would say 24-25 lands is probably the optimal number. You need enough lands to easily hit your land drops early on, but you don't want too many topdecked lands in the end game.
It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.
It should be about giving black cards to Niche.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 01, 2012 - 4:24PM
#196
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The problem I'm running into is early games either not having enough ramp or the wrong lands I know I need 3 more scar lands. Would it be good to cut than 2 red titans for 4 huntsmasters?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 01, 2012 - 5:44PM
#197
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The problem I'm running into is early games either not having enough ramp or the wrong lands I know I need 3 more scar lands. Would it be good to cut than 2 red titans for 4 huntsmasters?
The biggest problem I've seen with the consistancy of this deck is with the lands. Getting a bad land draw hurts greatly, which is why running 15-17 colored lands that can come into play untapped unassited in the first two turns is crucial. This is why the Scar lands are so in demand. Once you get past the first few turns you should be able to ramp just fine. I typically run 24 lands without trouble (See my deck post on p.19 to get an idea). Not sure what your meta looks like, but I would get rid of the single Ghost Quarter and limit Kessig to two for this exact reason. In tournament play, consistancy is KING. You don't want to have to mulligan because you didn't draw the lands you need. This is also why you've had people criticise you on only running three Prime Times, as that card greatly helps with the consistancy and flow of the deck (not to mention it's a great way to search for Inkmoth and Kessig). Also, you might want to consider running more Simulacrum (no less than 3) as well. Cutting two Birds will help with this. If you don't want to cut the Birds, I'd consider side-boarding the Whipflares. You're already running great board removal with three Slagstorm, and the only reason I can see running more is when you're playing against Esper/Delver Spirits and other token heavy decks. You're essentially just using it to buy you time to cast a Titan. Solemn Simulacrum is such a great flow card, and it also helps you in activating your metal-crafted Galvanic Blasts. The Huntmaster v. Inferno Titan call is all on your expected metagame, though I can tell you that people will probably be expecting the Huntmaster after Hawaii. I'd go with the Titan, but that's just me. I like having the big, pumpable body and pinging ability (theoretically swinging for nine out of an unpumped six-coster is amazing). Whatever you choose, pick one or the other, not both for consistancy's sake. As far as GSZ goes, I find that running four can be a bit cumbersome at times. I usually only use them to search for Slime or a second turn birds for extra ramp, so two works just fine for me. However, if you do choose to run Huntmaster, I can see running more GSZ since you have another target to choose from and five mana for two life and four power isn't bad.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 01, 2012 - 9:16PM
#198
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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imo cut the birds. down to 1. even in a meta where you wont see a ton of aggro where you'd lose them to your own sweepers, your bound to lose it vs any deck running burn or tragic slip or any of the other 1 mana ping spells.
i'll have to disagree slightly with mrindigo on its would play out as any other ramp deck. i've tried it without wolf run and inkmoths(didn't have any at the time, and it doesn't even come close to the power and options the lands give...i ended up just playing a ramp to genesis wave deck with about 9 titans in it until i got them. it wasn't terrible... and waving into an urabrask and 3 titans is nuts) if your not running wolf run or inkmoth i'd say it's not even worth running primeval since more land is almost irrelevant after the ramp to titan, barring ramping into a fireball. imo the land changes the deck from a "pure" ramp into fatties deck by giving you lines of play with small creatures that can become large threats where a typical ramp deck just plays bombs. for example playing wolf run without the land imo would be semi-like playing eldrazi green without their enabler lands.
on the gsz.. i find running 4 has helped my consistency.. either getting huntmaster if or when i need it searching up more, grabbing a titan if i didn't draw it or lose one.. it was very usefull against mono green aggro and in the mirror match as it searches up glissa who stops most of their big threats. that being said if i owned a thrun i'd probably go down to 3 gsz.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 02, 2012 - 10:14AM
#199
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That is another thing why run glissa, maybe I'm readin her wrong. I like the death touch but other than that there really isn't a reason for me to run her. I like huntsmaster but I think the problem I'm having now is figuring out what hands are the ones to keep. I used to think 1 land and a bird would be fine. But if they run mentalmisstep then in the open your screwed. I've been thinking of side bording it though maybe as a 2/3 of what do you guys think?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 02, 2012 - 11:16AM
#200
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2010
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she has first strike. i run her mostly vs tokens to recur the rachets but have brought her in against mono green and the mirror. basically barring multiple titans she can hold their ground game off a few turns. she's situationally been awesome for me. secondly to me the birds are just a bonus random faster start. yeah they can misstep but wheres the difference between that and a gut shot etc... thats why so much of the ramp is spells/artifacts barring solemn but that ramp happens on etb. as to what hands to keep, that can change drastically depending on what your up against.
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