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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 12:36AM
#81
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Modern was atrocious, and defending it as it was is a joke.
These bans are mostly well thought out. I don't think the extended bans fix anything, but the faults of that format are with its definition, not card pool. GSZ is a bit of an odd ban out, but their explanation is not illogical. We'll see how it plays out.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:05AM
#82
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2006
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Meh. I run alot of legacy in the area and already several regulars told me they aren't happy with Mis-step getting the axe. I can't say I blame them. In Lauer's article he said Mis-step was made in part to keep cards like Brainstorm in check. Well now you have nothing to keep brainstorm in check and it's the best combo enabler in the format. So going by that logic, how can you ban both ponder and pre-ordain in Modern because they are both poor imitations of Brainstorm yet help combo too much... but Brainstorm is untouched in Legacy? Combo just went through the roof in Legacy. Although I will say they accompplished making it fair in Modern... after it won a PT. Just a mixed bag of bannings... same as their first recent batch of modern bannings. Seems like they just aren't thinking some of these bannings through enough. Mental Mis-step kept alot of cards in check. I'd even argue that if it were legal in Modern, Rite/Ponder/Pre-ordain would all be legal right now. Now that MM is banned in Legacy Brainstorm is just absolutely insane. And the newest batch of modern bannings made Aether Vial the stone cold card of the format. But with their pattern of bannings in Modern that probably won't last long once it starts dominating the format. I'm just speculating on Vial, but Brainstorm being out of control is just inevtiable. It was already a top card in the format. Now it's arguably the top card in the format since MM isn't there to keep it in check. Very unhappy with the announcement of Mis-step being banned in legacy. Lauer said they can now go back to more decks being played in the format. Not sure what format he's watching. Legacy is the most diverse of all constructed formats hands down. I routinely have 6-8 different decks in my top 8's. Now half of them will be combo  Oh well. - Dave Feinstein
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:06AM
#83
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2011
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Dear R&D, did you ever consider unbanning mental misstep in modern? I agree with the banning of it in legacy 100%, but it seems to me that instead of banning greensun, preordain and ponder for being "too effecient" why not unban misstep to give decks a tool to fight them and in turn slow the format down? This seems like a better plan to me than just banning cards that do their job "too well."
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:11AM
#84
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2011
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Dxfiler, you are entirely missing the point. Legacy has Force of Will to combat combo with. The reason they are banning misstep in legacy is not to promote combo, but to make the format diverse again. Since the printing of mental misstep, running a blue deck is nearly a must. It was so format warping that the latest dredge deck that won at SCG atlanta literally decided not to cast spells to win. Many decks in legacy died because of misstep, including counterbalance, goblins, and hightide. Also, brainstorm really isn't just a combo piece, it's run in nearly every blue deck, combo or control. The card is just good, it doesn't do anything broken. There is, in my opinion, no need to ban brainstorm. In fact, that could be the worst thing you could do for legacy, in my opinion of course.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:14AM
#85
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2011
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Meh.
I run alot of legacy in the area and already several regulars told me they aren't happy with Mis-step getting the axe.
I can't say I blame them. In Lauer's article he said Mis-step was made in part to keep cards like Brainstorm in check. Well now you have nothing to keep brainstorm in check and it's the best combo enabler in the format. So going by that logic, how can you ban both ponder and pre-ordain in Modern because they are both poor imitations of Brainstorm yet help combo too much... but Brainstorm is untouched in Legacy?
Combo just went through the roof in Legacy. Although I will say they accompplished making it fair in Modern... after it won a PT.
Just a mixed bag of bannings... same as their first recent batch of modern bannings.
Seems like they just aren't thinking some of these bannings through enough.
Mental Mis-step kept alot of cards in check. I'd even argue that if it were legal in Modern, Rite/Ponder/Pre-ordain would all be legal right now.
Now that MM is banned in Legacy Brainstorm is just absolutely insane. And the newest batch of modern bannings made Aether Vial the stone cold card of the format. But with their pattern of bannings in Modern that probably won't last long once it starts dominating the format.
I'm just speculating on Vial, but Brainstorm being out of control is just inevtiable. It was already a top card in the format. Now it's arguably the top card in the format since MM isn't there to keep it in check.
Very unhappy with the announcement of Mis-step being banned in legacy. Lauer said they can now go back to more decks being played in the format. Not sure what format he's watching. Legacy is the most diverse of all constructed formats hands down. I routinely have 6-8 different decks in my top 8's.
Now half of them will be combo
Oh well.
- Dave Feinstein
Also, did you just start playing legacy? the number of architypes pre-mental misstep was staggering. the amount post-misstep is a pittance in comparision.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:23AM
#86
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2006
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Define a 'pittance.' I've played legacy since its inception, although I mainly run tournaments for it now. There's a ton of decks in the format. I just ran a 30 person tourney on saturday with 8 different decks in the top 8. And in my weekly events there's almost always 4 different decks in top 4. Sure, there was more combo in the format pre-misstep being banned. If the goal was to return combo to prominence, they've done it. You'll now see alot of different types of decks that kill people on turn 3  - Dave
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:32AM
#87
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2011
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New format: Eternal all sets legal. Banned list with explanations: All instants: most instants are too strong and we'd rather be careful. All sorceries: sorceries are really just instants without flash, and as pointed out instants are too strong. All artifacts: we're pretty sure that artifacts will lead to degenerate things happening. All enchantments: Necropotence is too good, Necropotence is an enchantment. Therefore enchantments are too good. Almost all creatures: we'll let you keep Grizzly Bears, Hill Giant, and Tarmagoyf. All Blue producing lands: we realized blue decks were played more than we liked. We feel this will create the type of meta game that we can stand behind. Oh and we're also banning Jace, the Mind Sculptor because we can.
POST OF THE YEAR
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:33AM
#88
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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I don't see any pattern in the ban list ban all artifact lands except Darksteel Citadel ban Mental Misstep leave AEther Vial ban all t8 decks from Philly ban Mental Misstep in legacy??? wtf is someone in RnD playing zoo and is pissed off cause its a crappy deck and can't win anything???? XD They've completly shut the blue down in modern  If they, by some chance unban Ancestral Vision maybe we would see some control decks in modern...not only dumb aggro and combo this leaves Ravager Affinity and Zoo as an option, also Hive Mind and some random combo decks that might go off disaster... oh and I forgot the most mindneeding deck of all times Jund *sigh* bad banning decissions
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:38AM
#89
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I love it when combo cards get banned. All of these changes are pretty sweet, and I say that as someone who just got his GSZ playset. That card is ridiculous.
Everyone should relax, blue is still the best color in every constructed format (Standard maybe not post-rotation, but the odds are it'll be the best again within months).
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 1:45AM
#90
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2011
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the number of architypes pre-mental misstep was staggering. the amount post-misstep is a pittance in comparision.
Can you show me a chart to back this claim? To be fair, decks first have to be legitimately viable to be considered an archetype. Mental Misstep, if anything, gave players a more clear direction of the strategies they need to be using.
Legacy is dominated by super efficient 1 cost cards. Cards like Mental Misstep make sure that those decks don't get out of hands (the same applies to pretty much any hyper efficient removal card - Force of Will, Swords to Plowshares, Wasteland, etc.) In order to reverse this dominance, you don't remove something that every color has access to. If anything, Mental Misstep is the perfect card for legacy BECAUSE it can be played in any deck. It's not like you just plug it in and it works. Some decks dont need it, most decks do. The format swaying towards blue being too powerful is probably a sign of something else, and not the sign of a card that all five colors have realistic access to.
For a reference to refute your point, I have included the three consecutive previous 4-0 record decks from MTGO Legacy Daily events. These were the only decks that were 4-0.
www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlin...
www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlin...
www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlin...
EDIT: To clarify how diverse these 16 decklists (which all have a record of 3-1 or better) are, there are 12 different strategies used to defeat your opponent. While Mental Misstep is certainly found in many of those decks, it does things like curb Goblins and Glimpse of Nature decks so that they don't corner the format. If your concern is that Goblins isn't found in these lists, keep in mind that Goblins had been a very strong deck in 1.5/Legacy from Scourge to Worldwake.
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