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2 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2011 - 11:30PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Sep 14, 2010
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I'm not 100% sure I agree grinding is not fun, having been a minesweeper / tetris / bubble blast addict for many a year. I do agree this will not be good for players that have less time than others (which I guess is the principle flaw in other such games like WoW anyway). On the other hand, as a casual player I find it kind of cool that I now am a certain level (I won't boast which as it won't impress anyone); my main beef before I looked at this thread was that I want these ratings to show up on the forum pages - would it be so hard to link a DCI number to each forum account? Could help us all to decide which posts to take seriously
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 12:01AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2011
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my main beef before I looked at this thread was that I want these ratings to show up on the forum pages - would it be so hard to link a DCI number to each forum account? Could help us all to decide which posts to take seriously
I'm a casual player. I play only at a kitchen table. DCI ranked players are a margin of all Magic players. I don't think that ranked players posts are more valid than kitchen table players. I may play Magic every day at my home and spend more money for my collection than FNM participan.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 12:03AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2006
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We have been paying a lot of attention to what people in the gaming world have been doing in recent years, and across the board—whether it is MMOs or social games—the way you keep people invested is through a constant stream of positive reinforcement.
Now I've heard everything. Magic is now trying to be more like Farmville.
Free MTGO Tournaments you should be playing: Pauper (all commons) - Tuesday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Peasant (Pauper + 5 uncommons, with paper rarity) - Sunday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Silverblack (Modern-era Commons and Uncommons - Most Wednesday nights, prizes by MTGO Bazaar Heirloom ("Cheap" cards only, e.g. rares under 20 cents) - Sunday afternoons, sponsored by MTGOTraders Check the superbly-made Gatherling site for more. Other games you should try: Spectromancer - Online card game by Richard Garfield, available cheap on Steam. DC Universe Online - action-based MMO. Free to play. Surprised me how well designed it is. Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 12:04AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2004
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Would be nice to see BDM actually present some questions about potential flaws in this system. I understand he is writing for Wizards but seeing him throw all these softball questions about the format while ignoring some of the elephants in the room is a pretty big bummer for what I consider to be one of the better writers/commentators in Magic. I also noticed they threw out a couple Pros names in support of the system, but failed to mention that others such as Finkel and PVDR have been less than enthused with it. For me the new system has just made competitive magic even less legitimate as it now promotes grinding over playing against other skilled opponents.
As for the whole issues of people sitting on ratings, what was preventing them for creating a "competitive season" with ELO? I'm not totally familiar with the equations used in ELO but it seems like they could have had a lifetime ELO and a competitive ELO that reset every 4 months, ensuring that people would have a reason to go out and play.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 12:26AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2007
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I like the system overall.
There's one major problem with it though: The FNM x3 multiplier. The three times bonus severely damages many magic communities and is also very unfair for those that can't play every friday due to work, long distances to FNM or the Shabbat.
I personally have been playing since revised, and attend my local tournament on tuesdays. We have about 50 people every tuesday and a thriving community. We couldn't gather nearly as many if we're forced to move this tournament to friday (due to the x3 multiplier, wizards virtually forces us).
If I play my tuesday night tournament and go 6-0 and some random dude goes to FNM and go 3-3 he will earn more points than me. That means I have to compete at FNM's to even have a remote chance to get national invite and GP byes.
Further more it diminishes the importance of the GPT's and PTQ's that have almost the same importance as FNM's now. I seriously don't understand why you wouldn't make these tournament more important and special by having no multiplier on FNM's or a bigger multiplier on them.
I'm not one of those players that say I'll quit magic forever because of this change. I do however think that I'll play far less competetive events, because I know have lost my incentive to raise my rating, and eventually get invites to nationals, byes to GP's and such. I don't play FNM's because I can't play on fridays, so I can't get enough point to compete with those that do. So now it's virtually impossible for me to get enough points even though I do fairly well in all the other tournament I participate in...
The weirdest thing about all this is that I think the system would be fixed, and you would make people alot happier, if you did a single very simple thing: Remove the FNM multiplier. Aren't the FNM championship enough reward to those that attend FNM's???
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 12:34AM
#16
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I despise how MMOs work. But Aaron reassured on twitter if grinders suddenly outpoint skilled players, the system will be ajusted. I mostly agree with you, moonblaze. However, even though the PP system rewards the players who go to high multiplier tournaments each week, it rewards those people that WIN those same tournaments even more. So I don't think that your going to have what happens with the Baseball Hall of Fame happen to Pro Magic... the cream will (I think) still rise to the top and players that consistently win large tournaments on a regular basis will still outpace people who only rack up participation points.
We'll have to see. As said before, someone who consistently wins european GPs can still be beaten by someone who just goes to every american one.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 12:59AM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2009
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I am mostly a casual player and don't really care about any ratings but posts like Bondafong's made me wonder: Is there anything keeping locale stores from having their FNM on another day of the week? I mean other than the F in the name FNM.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 1:19AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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BDM: When you look at this program a year from now, what will be the hallmark of this being a success? If it goes smoothly without any hiccups?  There are going to be kinks all along the road once this is in motion. We do not know what player behavior is going to be, but if someone who never played in Friday Night Magic because of ratings concerns goes and plays Friday Night Magic, it will be a success.
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OK, what about the hallmark of it being a failure? What about all the people who play LESS because their rating has become a meaningless number that doesnt reflect how well they are doing?
I used to enjoy tracking my DCI rating. I would check every day after an event to see if it had been updated. If I did well, my rating went up - and if I hit a bad patch it went down. It wasnt the most important thing in the world (or even in the hobby), but it was important to me - it felt like my progress was being recognised.
Now however, my "Planeswalker Points" mean nothing to me.
I can win the local Standard tournament every month with an undefeated record. However, someone who comes last at FNM 4 times a month gets more points!
So instead of being based on skill, experience or win/loss records, Planeswalker Points are based on who can afford to attend the most tournaments, who lives closest to the biggest FLGS, who is free on a Friday night (and it has to be a Friday night - even in the UK - because the rules changed).
All of a sudden I get less points depending on what day of the week it is - and I have no hope of keeping up with people who can attend events that I cant get to. My skill, experience or consistency are no longer recognised, and my "rating" no longer means anything to me.
You may have well have removed the ratings system all together, and replaced it with a "loyalty card" scheme, where you earn points based on how much you spend on tournament entry.
Good job Wizards. 
~ Tim
 Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D Sig
Show
That makes no sense to me.
If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?
~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch . YAY COLOR IDENTITY 
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 1:20AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Nov 29, 2005
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"I think that we don't need to prove that Magic is a skill game anymore. We have fifteen years of data that proves that." - Aaron Forsythe arguing against ELO
While there may be some validity to this point I tend to disagree since removing the ELO system completely and replacing it with the Planeswalker Points still undoubtedly sends the signal that Magic is in fact a game where the amount onf time you spend playing it gets rewarded rather than your actual skill level. I think it is critically important to the game that it keeps some semblance of an actual skill based game at least in its rating system. One of the great things about Magic after all is that it is fun to play at any level but DOES lend itself to actual competitive play very well.
I am firmly of the opinion however that the best players should reap the rewards of their playskill and receive byes or invites to the Pro Tour. This is a metric that the new system utterly fails at since only those who play frequently in high level events have a legitimate shot at the benefits.
What I find most hypocritical is that the Planeswalker Points will be used as a ranking metric when it is completely apparent that the thing that is being measured by them is not in fact playskill but rather the sheer volume of tournaments played. I find this very troubling as it telegraphs a completely wrong idea of what competitive play is about. The more impressive feat should always be going 15-0 in tournaments rather than playing 5-10 in three times as many tournaments. Under the new system these two "achievements" are met with the same reward. This is very obviously wrong and demonstrates that the PPs are in no way a justifiable measure for skill when they HAVE TO be if used as a ranking system. Number 1 in a ranking should always be the best because of winning most in relation to his/her losses.
Something else that is very bothersome is that the system is utterly US-centric. There are most tournaments available in the US and thus it is likely that most of the benefits will be handed out to US players on the simple grounds that they have more chances to play in more tournaments. Europe has greatly skilled players as has been made obvious on the PT circuit since basically forever, and distributing byes and PT invites via the worldwide rankings puts these players at a disadvantage since they don't even have the chance to rack up the same number of points as players in the US with the SCG open series and similar events. I don't see what the problem is with regionalizing the byes in a similar fashion as has been hinted at with the PT invites. It just seems way more fair to distribute the byes and incidentally more of the PT invites by means of the more regional (that is continental) rankings since players in those regions have more of the same preconditions and can thus be measured more fairly by the same scale.
I am all for the idea of making losing less of an issue but this can certainly not be the way to go about it if one wants to represent Magic as any kind of competitive and skill testing game.
EDIT: Something else that just came to my mind is that more casual players usually don't show much, if any, interest in their ratings. Why "mess it up" for those people who actually care about/benefit from/are interested in the portrayal of Magic as a skill-based game via rating only to make it for those people who likely won't care one way or the other. The tournament scene did not have much of a grudge against the "old" rating system as far as I can tell and it did reflect much better what mattered to those people: How good am I at Magic in comparison to my peers.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 1:31AM
#20
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OK - I... Agree with the principles behind the system (Taking into account ). Positive reinforcement (and gameification. The weirdest part of this system is that it's gameification applied to a league structure, essentially) for playing, not allowing it to be gamed by not playing (Yes, this system is gameable, but... Being gameable by playing lots of events is probably better than being gameable by not playing), etc. All good motivations for replacing the old system.
...I disagree with the implementation, however. Partially because I'm a carless Brit who's about one and a half hours away by public transport from my nearest FNM (...And about two hours away from a place that would be ideal for grinding this system despite it being double the distance. Public transport is weird that way), partially because this will hurt smaller stores, especially in places where there are multiple stores hosting sanctioned events but... Mostly because as currently implemented this isn't a rating or ranking system. And I'm desperately trying to work out a way of rewarding play while being a ranking system without concluding 'have two systems running in parrallel'
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