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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 12:28AM
#81
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2009
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As he stated before, Reprinting a card most likely wont lower the value of the initial versions. Eg: Alpha Lands, Birds.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 3:57AM
#82
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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control doesn't have jtms, bitterblosson ancestral visions, force of will, or even counterspell.
Not to pick on you, but I groan inwardly every time someone rattles off banned cards as an excuse for why control sucks I want to slap them and tell them to go build with an ounce of the innovation combo builders have and they should be able to craft a good enough list.
Modern has an enormous card pool. Figure something out.
The thing is, there is very little incentive to play a control deck. Control decks need engines and ways of winning that are reliable and fit easily into their plan. In a format that is very easy for combo decks to win(ie, lack of free control based counters, many easy to assemble combo's, lots of digging spells etc), it's remarkably hard for a control deck to function.
We built and tested control decks, I wanted to play control, but the incentives were not there, you needed to use just as much dig as a combo deck to find the specific answers you needed, instead of winning the game, you just prolonged the time it took to lose the game. Why play a control sytle win condition, when it's easier and thus more successful to play a combo win condition?
Sure, have a pyro/twin deck with a couple more counterspells in, but turning into a straight control deck is not a worthwhile option if you aim to be competing on the top level.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 7:13AM
#83
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2003
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Goyf does warp the format as it completely invalidates any 2CC creature ever printed in green. You HAVE to run goyf or you are running something suboptimal. The guy invalidates whole archetypes simply by existing. That doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be banned.
That isn't even my point. My point was (and I was reiterating what others have said) is that the real world cost of Tarmogoyf is what ultimately leads to this conversation about banning him.
My other point was that more people will play the format if they can get the cards to play the format. The more people playing the format the healthier the format will be (seriously, look at Vintage compared to Legacy). Make the cards accessible so that people will play the format. Especially since goyf is an aggro card and most new players will go straight to aggro since it is the most basic strategy. When they can't make a viable Modern deck because 4 cards in it cost more than the rest of the deck itself they will just go back to Standard.
Who cares if the value of your cards goes down if you aren't able to find tournaments to play your cards in because no one wants to play Modern/Legacy/Vintage? Do you want to play with your cards, or use them for your retirement fund? I own 22 dual lands, FoW, Wastes, 20 fetches and numerous other cards that sell in the secondary market. I'd rather be able to play with them than simply stroke my own ego about how my Underground Seas are worth $130. They are worthless if I can't play with them.
"There are some who call me...Tim?"
Go Duke!
I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts.
Former Member: Team ABS
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 8:27AM
#84
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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Goyf does warp the format as it completely invalidates any 2CC creature ever printed in green. You HAVE to run goyf or you are running something suboptimal. The guy invalidates whole archetypes simply by existing. That doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be banned.
Gaddock Teeg
Qasali Pridemage
Kavu Predator
Elvish Visionary
Lotus Cobra
Melira
Vexing Shusher
Priest of Titania
Coiling Oracle
Fauna Shaman
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Have I made my point?
My blog (everyone else is doing it...): http://ideas-abounding.blogspot.com/ "Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong. Paper, rock, and scissors, they all have their pros and cons." - Relient K DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nice person. MOTL Sale List: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/087367.html#0  Sig by the modest, yet talented, zpikduM.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 9:07AM
#85
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2003
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Goyf does warp the format as it completely invalidates any 2CC creature ever printed in green. You HAVE to run goyf or you are running something suboptimal. The guy invalidates whole archetypes simply by existing. That doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be banned.
Gaddock Teeg
Qasali Pridemage
Kavu Predator
Elvish Visionary
Lotus Cobra
Melira
Vexing Shusher
Priest of Titania
Coiling Oracle
Fauna Shaman
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Have I made my point?
Only if your point is that you missed mine...which is my fault.
Sorry, I was referring to any beatstick that costs 2 mana or more. Out of those you listed I would classify only the Kavu as actually a beatstick. And if you are running Kavu you should already be running goyf. I was definitely over-generalizing, but in terms of beatsticks goyf is the top of the list for 2 mana. Lots of things can take the secondary beatstick spot (like Kavu), but goyf still needs to be there.*
*The only exception I can think of right now is Legacy's GW Maverick.
Please also keep in mind that I don't think he needs to be banned. Goodness no. He just needs to be accessible. Worst case scenario he isn't and people need to play Affinity. If that is how the format develops, I probably won't play it, but that probably won't bother you.
"There are some who call me...Tim?"
Go Duke!
I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts.
Former Member: Team ABS
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 10:11AM
#86
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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Well, honestly... something has to be the best, especially within the narrow confines of "Best 2-mana Green effectively vanilla beatstick." I mean, that's like saying "Thoughtseize invalidates every other generic 1-mana Black discard spell," or "Aether Vial is the best 1-mana artifact that can be used to dodge counter-magic." Who cares? As long as they continue to print non-Vanilla 2-mana Green creatures, I'm perfectly happy.
My blog (everyone else is doing it...): http://ideas-abounding.blogspot.com/ "Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong. Paper, rock, and scissors, they all have their pros and cons." - Relient K DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nice person. MOTL Sale List: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/087367.html#0 Sig by the modest, yet talented, zpikduM.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 1:34PM
#87
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2009
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I mean, that's like saying "Thoughtseize invalidates every other generic 1-mana Black discard spell,"
Just saying, this one is debatable.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 1:52PM
#88
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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I mean, that's like saying "Thoughtseize invalidates every other generic 1-mana Black discard spell,"
Just saying, this one is debatable.
I might have phrased that poorly. What you should take away from it is: "You will play 4 copies of Thoughtseize before you play a single copy of Duress, Despise, or Inquisition of Kozilek."
And no, I don't count Cabal Therapy and Raven's Crime as generic discard. They're more like the Kavu Predator and Elvish Visionary of the list.
My blog (everyone else is doing it...): http://ideas-abounding.blogspot.com/ "Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong. Paper, rock, and scissors, they all have their pros and cons." - Relient K DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nice person. MOTL Sale List: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/087367.html#0 Sig by the modest, yet talented, zpikduM.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 2:31PM
#89
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2008
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Inquistion is to Thoughtseize what a Tarmogoyf printed as X-1/X-1 would be for G1.
 Boasts?
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ
"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter "It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 2:40PM
#90
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Some legacy lists run Inquisition instead of a forth thoughtseize, since the lifeloss is relevant. In Modern, Inquisition and thoughtseize do very similar things since there's no FOW, and the lifeloss is even more relevant in the aggressive match ups. We found as a team we were shaving Thoughtseizes for Inquisitions in a split in the MD for Jund as an example.
Therapy and Crime are parts of engines and are very different animals.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html
For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join!
Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
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