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Sep 8, 2011 -- 7:38AM, Wynzerman wrote:

Sep 8, 2011 -- 1:20AM, zpikduM wrote:

If goyf gets banned, I will seriously question the judgement of WotC. Goyf is a generic beater for 2. Every colour besides blue has a good answer for a generic dude for 2.
 

It makes other bears unplayable, and the "it dies to removal" is the same bad argument to support not banning EVERY broken creature. Generic, not so much though because it scales by rewarding you for playing every type of permanent and temporary as quickly as possible, so I don't see how it would be bad judgment to get rid of a card which throws the cost = effect balance far more out of whack than even artifact lands.

As for Ancestral Visions though, I don't really understand why they banned it in the first place (since all it does is replenishes the hand after several turns)

Goyf may make almost every other 2 drop creature unplayable, but banning goyf makes any deck revolving around creatures unplayable. Seriously, the reason Goyf has not been banned is because creature decks are just unplayable without him in powerful formats. Wild Nacatl makes 99.9% of 1 drops unplayble too, but again, without it creature decks are unplayable.

Sep 8, 2011 -- 3:27PM, Niche wrote:

I think it is a ridiculous stretch to say Goyf makes aggro valid. Playing an aggro deck without Goyf makes your deck weaker, but not invalid. And it is certainly playable. Your replacement creature may end up with 1 less power over the course of a game because Goyf will often get to 4/5.

I'd never claim Watchwolf is better than Goyf, but its a darn serviceable replacement in Zoo if you don't have $360 for 4 cards. A 3/3 for 2 is strong enough to get many jobs done.

Zoo would probably shift to more tribal in Goyf's absence... like elves.

Ultimately I don't think banning goyf changes any damn thing. It just fixes prices for Modern decks.

You can't have it both ways. Either Goyf is neccessary in which case you need to shell out $360, or it's not and you can play watchwolf. You cant change positions halfway through your argument. Either Zoo would drasticaly have to change without goyf or it would not. Either Goyf is essential to the archetypes presence in the format or not. If it is then goyf cannot be banned without removing that archetype, if it is not then you can play all the other options.

Any creatures who can only tap to attack with no ETB or other abiltiies do not need to be banned in formats as powerful as Modern / Legacy. Yeah it's a little dumb control can so easily splash him for a finisher, but big deal. The combo decks are so fast and doing things that are completely unfair, any creature that needs to wait to attack and can only attack , has no protection from any form or removal, has no evasion, no recursion, no card advantage, or does anything bu beat face ...does not need to be banned.

Sep 9, 2011 -- 5:32AM, makochman wrote:

Sep 8, 2011 -- 4:34PM, Islands wrote:

Disrupting Shoal will be hawt. 

I think Legacy Lite is the last thing Tom LaPille would want.

Totally!

I can't wait until Modern is watered down to a boring control format.  Whooo! Control mirrors all day!  

Clearly this format can't last.  I like it too much.

You need all the expensive cards.  We can't let you get away without running Thoughtseize, Bob, Goyf, or Clique.

No, we need to nerf Ponder, Peer, and Preordain.

I hate kneejerk reactions.