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Switch to Forum Live View modern is a big bust
2 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 6:11PM #31
Anon_Eon
Date Joined: Jul 29, 2006
Posts: 975
I belive the banhammer on stoneforge is going to be stuck on the on setting, considering it gets played in vintage AND legacy. With bannings in standard and modern meaning its JUST THAT GOOD. You do know how hard it is to get a standard creature card to be good in those formats right? The last 2 were goyf and confidant. You do know that the old cawblade lists can compete in older formats with only a few bits changing here and there. Im GLAD modern isnt the return to the old cawblade decks that had early middle and lategame inevitability to them. I can live in a format like this where were still testing out the waters on what we all want to get to.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 8:12PM #32
Wynzerman
Date Joined: Oct 23, 2010
Posts: 3,498

I think there is good argument for Vesuva and Goyf to see the banhammer simply because Vesuva empowers ANY land far too well (lands are power in Magic, afterall), and Goyf is just super- Blastoderm most of the time. Both cards are innocent enough within their design space, but push the upper limit of "where we should go", since clone-lands and non-specific graveyard effects are just bad news in competitive settings.


And on the other side, I think there is good argument for many objects to get off of the banlist (though I'm not quite convinced that Stoneforge Mystic , Sensei's Divining Top or Umezawa's Jitte are the best choices)



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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 1:20AM #33
zpikduM
Date Joined: Nov 11, 2009
Posts: 2,052
If goyf gets banned, I will seriously question the judgement of WotC. Goyf is a generic beater for 2. Every colour besides blue has a good answer for a generic dude for 2.

If anything gets unbanned, Ancestral Visions needs to be unbanned, along with Bitterblossom. Control barely stands a chance without the sheer CA that is Ancestral Visions. 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 2:17AM #34
Anon_Eon
Date Joined: Jul 29, 2006
Posts: 975

Sep 8, 2011 -- 1:20AM, zpikduM wrote:

If goyf gets banned, I will seriously question the judgement of WotC. Goyf is a generic beater for 2. Every colour besides blue has a good answer for a generic dude for 2.

If anything gets unbanned, Ancestral Visions needs to be unbanned, along with Bitterblossom. Control barely stands a chance without the sheer CA that is Ancestral Visions. 




visions I can see comming off. I find it not that particularly damning of a card. On the other hand I doubt blossom will since its very broken to get a 1/1 body that evades, which when played with the rest of a fae deck gets abusive very quickly.

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 3:41AM #35
jblaze4lif82
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Posts: 133
Why are they so worried about stoneforge when post, pyromancer, splinter are winning in 3 or 4 turns. We need more solid aggro control cards.  They worried about a 3rd turn batterskull but who cares about a 4th turn emrakul or 24 goblin tokens or 10000 splinter tokens
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 6:46AM #36
izgor
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2009
Posts: 335

Sep 8, 2011 -- 3:41AM, jblaze4lif82 wrote:

Why are they so worried about stoneforge when post, pyromancer, splinter are winning in 3 or 4 turns. We need more solid aggro control cards.  They worried about a 3rd turn batterskull but who cares about a 4th turn emrakul or 24 goblin tokens or 10000 splinter tokens




I personally don't want the game to go in the opposite extreme of the current modern's meta or stay at the current state. Cawblade was a lot like raffinity was in morrodin/onslaught meta where you either played cawblade or a red deck, and the red decks didn't often do so well.

I agree with unbanning visions, it might help control against the current field. If they are against unbanning visions then I would hope that they do something to lower the power of the current meta of combo or gtfo.

Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 7:14AM #37
CyrusBales
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,267

Islands only likes the format because it's the one format where his pet deck, Pyromancer's Ascension, is a good deck :P

Seriosuly though, I found the WOTC coverage very amusing and the meta breakdown today trying to make it look fair by lumping all the bad builds of decks with good builds to drag their numbers down, and using small sample sizes.

If the banlist doesn't change for the modern PTQ season, I suspect it will be just as bad a season as Extended was. Which is a shame, since I was really excited about the format, and the PT just ended up being a bit of a joke, and my expection for a Japanese player to come up with a super sick gifts control deck was a failure.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 7:38AM #38
Wynzerman
Date Joined: Oct 23, 2010
Posts: 3,498

Sep 8, 2011 -- 1:20AM, zpikduM wrote:

If goyf gets banned, I will seriously question the judgement of WotC. Goyf is a generic beater for 2. Every colour besides blue has a good answer for a generic dude for 2.
 




It makes other bears unplayable, and the "it dies to removal" is the same bad argument to support not banning EVERY broken creature. Generic, not so much though because it scales by rewarding you for playing every type of permanent and temporary as quickly as possible, so I don't see how it would be bad judgment to get rid of a card which throws the cost = effect balance far more out of whack than even artifact lands.


As for Ancestral Visions though, I don't really understand why they banned it in the first place (since all it does is replenishes the hand after several turns)



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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 8:09AM #39
izgor
Date Joined: Aug 3, 2009
Posts: 335

Sep 8, 2011 -- 7:14AM, CyrusBales wrote:


Islands only likes the format because it's the one format where his pet deck, Pyromancer's Ascension, is a good deck :P

Seriosuly though, I found the WOTC coverage very amusing and the meta breakdown today trying to make it look fair by lumping all the bad builds of decks with good builds to drag their numbers down, and using small sample sizes.

If the banlist doesn't change for the modern PTQ season, I suspect it will be just as bad a season as Extended was. Which is a shame, since I was really excited about the format, and the PT just ended up being a bit of a joke, and my expection for a Japanese player to come up with a super sick gifts control deck was a failure.




YOU LIE THEY DID MAKE A GIFTS CONTROL DECK AND THEY DIDN'T SHARE IT.

LIAR! YOU'LL SEE THEY WILL BE ALL, "OH YEA LOL HERES A GIFTS CONTROL DECK."

AND IT WILL BE AWESOME.

I can dream.

Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 8:50AM #40
Raedien
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 5,521

Sep 8, 2011 -- 7:38AM, Wynzerman wrote:

As for Ancestral Visions though, I don't really understand why they banned it in the first place (since all it does is replenishes the hand after several turns)



I seriously hate how no one seems to understand this, it's very simple.

Guess how much money Ancestal Visions makes WotC?

Zero cents.

Guess how much money Visions of Beyond gets them?

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