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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 3:22PM
#91
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2009
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I brought the thoughtseize thing up because some decks don't like the lifeloss [ANT, primary example, would rather run 4 Duress, then 2 Thoughtseize as their distruption package.]
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 4:06PM
#92
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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And some decks want 4 Kavu Predator before 4 Goyf... general principle still applies. In the vast majority of decks, Thoughtseize is just the better card.
My blog (everyone else is doing it...): http://ideas-abounding.blogspot.com/ "Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong. Paper, rock, and scissors, they all have their pros and cons." - Relient K DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nice person. MOTL Sale List: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/087367.html#0  Sig by the modest, yet talented, zpikduM.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 4:30PM
#93
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2003
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I have beem playing a lot of MTGO modern lately, and I gotta say that it is not at all what the OP makes it out to be. I had not used my account in more than a year, so after I got everything working I had to buy all the cards for my chosen Modern deck. The grand total was $75 for all ofthe MD, and that was with me being too impatient to shop around and buy from online auctions. If I had been patient I could have cut that by 30% I'm sure. Now, I will admit that the deck I play is cheaper than most, but I have been winning around 75% of my games. The decks I see most are: Goyf Zoo- Not a problem. Yes, Goyf at 2cmc is the best in his slot, but it really does not change Zoo's game to run another card. When I face Zoo I am much more worried about Nacatl and KotR than I am Goyf. 12 Post- This is my worst matchup so far, and I am still around 50%. The trick is to race them, and I can do it with decent draws. Ascension- This is easier to race than 12 post, but it is still a race. The build I keep seeing uses mana spells to get a huge storm count and then casts Empty the Warens  . The thing is I still ussually have a turn or two after this happens, and that has been enough time to win. Affinity- I have not lost to this yet. I have also seen UB Faeries, Elves, Rock, and a few other old friends, but not in huge numbers. It is not a perfect format, and control needs to get some mojo going, but it is not a bust.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 6:56PM
#94
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2003
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Well, honestly... something has to be the best, especially within the narrow confines of "Best 2-mana Green effectively vanilla beatstick." I mean, that's like saying "Thoughtseize invalidates every other generic 1-mana Black discard spell," or "Aether Vial is the best 1-mana artifact that can be used to dodge counter-magic." Who cares? As long as they continue to print non-Vanilla 2-mana Green creatures, I'm perfectly happy.
What was the best green 2 mana vanilla creature before goyf?
Werebear  ? Meh, not really vanilla as he produces mana...but you really can't play him anymore anyway because of goyf.
Wild Mongrel  ? I guess not really vanilla because he has that discard ability. Not that you can play him because you should probably be playing goyf.
The power gap of goyf and every other "efficient" green creature is so wide you could fit a dump truck in it. Name one green creature the mimics the functionality of goyf with remotely the same power level. It is nothing like comparing Duress and Thoughtsieze. Duress can be used as a budget alternative to Thoughtsieze with almost identical results. No creature can claim that similarity in functionality with goyf.
However, this conversation is pointless. I am perfectly happy with goyf being the best as well. However, I hate the fact that he is completely inaccesible. It has nothing to do with his power level and everything to do with his accessibility. So why are we arguing about his power level when all I want is for aggro players to be on roughly the same playing field in terms of deck design capabilities?
I hate the fact that people have to play "budget" alternatives to goyf when he is such a basic and fundamental card to green aggro strategies and no real budget alternative exists.
"There are some who call me...Tim?"
Go Duke!
I apologize for my lack of grammar, spelling, and coherence in my posts.
Former Member: Team ABS
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2 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2011 - 10:10PM
#95
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2009
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I hate the fact that people have to play "budget" alternatives to goyf when he is such a basic and fundamental card to green aggro strategies and no real budget alternative exists.
This is literally the only part of your argument that holds water. Griping about the power difference between goyf and every other "2cmc vanilla green beater" is asinine. People aren't griping about the lack of Progenitus substitutes, nor are they griping about the lack of dark confidant substitutes, despite the fact that the prices of both cards are significant in cost. I don't even understand why you continue to re-hash your argument in this thread. Are you looking for validation? Most of the other posters understand goyf's power level, and are fine with it. Goyf is one of the best card designs in magic, since his scaling (which you mistakenly view as somethingworth banning) directly correlates to the speed of whatever format he's playing in.
The lack of fetches in the upcoming meta is actually one of the biggest hints that tarmogoyf could be seeing a standard-legal reprint in the next core set.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 8:12AM
#96
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2008
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come on guys, goyf is good but he needs other cards (every other card type) to be great. I ran him for years and now I sold them and run skinshifter  strictly because of the flexability of him compared to goyf....hes bigger faster, can chump goyf even at his biggest and CAN FLY. Goyf would ahve been supra-awesome IF HE HAD TRAMPLE, chumping him with a common or token allways pissed me off because if i ahd a removal spell i would have to use it on a better target then a token.....JMO
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 10:11AM
#97
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come on guys, goyf is good but he needs other cards (every other card type) to be great. I ran him for years and now I sold them and run skinshifter strictly because of the flexability of him compared to goyf....hes bigger faster, can chump goyf even at his biggest and CAN FLY. Goyf would ahve been supra-awesome IF HE HAD TRAMPLE, chumping him with a common or token allways pissed me off because if i ahd a removal spell i would have to use it on a better target then a token.....JMO
You made a critical mistake somewhere in this post and I'm not sure if it's selling Goyf or running SKinshifter over him.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK!
"ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day  ..."
"MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 11:36AM
#98
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2008
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come on guys, goyf is good but he needs other cards (every other card type) to be great. I ran him for years and now I sold them and run skinshifter strictly because of the flexability of him compared to goyf....hes bigger faster, can chump goyf even at his biggest and CAN FLY. Goyf would ahve been supra-awesome IF HE HAD TRAMPLE, chumping him with a common or token allways pissed me off because if i ahd a removal spell i would have to use it on a better target then a token.....JMO
You made a critical mistake somewhere in this post and I'm not sure if it's selling Goyf or running SKinshifter over him.
selling 4 pieces of cardboard for 400 bucks, not really a mistake. Replacing them with Skinshifter.....not bad......so where did I make a mistake?......
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 1:33PM
#99
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come on guys, goyf is good but he needs other cards (every other card type) to be great. I ran him for years and now I sold them and run skinshifter strictly because of the flexability of him compared to goyf....hes bigger faster, can chump goyf even at his biggest and CAN FLY. Goyf would ahve been supra-awesome IF HE HAD TRAMPLE, chumping him with a common or token allways pissed me off because if i ahd a removal spell i would have to use it on a better target then a token.....JMO
You made a critical mistake somewhere in this post and I'm not sure if it's selling Goyf or running SKinshifter over him.
selling 4 pieces of cardboard for 400 bucks, not really a mistake. Replacing them with Skinshifter.....not bad......so where did I make a mistake?......
Wha?
You keep insisting that this was the right choice? Man, there is a reason why Tarmogoyf costs so much and skinshifter is still 4 bucks expensive. Tarmogoyf is most of the times permanently 4/5 and it doesn't get killed by bolts or something like that like skinshifter. That shifter guy needs mana every turn to keep him at shape, thus making him way more vulnerable to burn effects. He also activates only once per turn, you can't change him as many times as you want, even if your mana pool is big.
Tarmogoyf > Skinshifter.
I think you should get back those 'goyfs...
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 1:49PM
#100
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come on guys, goyf is good but he needs other cards (every other card type) to be great. I ran him for years and now I sold them and run skinshifter strictly because of the flexability of him compared to goyf....hes bigger faster, can chump goyf even at his biggest and CAN FLY. Goyf would ahve been supra-awesome IF HE HAD TRAMPLE, chumping him with a common or token allways pissed me off because if i ahd a removal spell i would have to use it on a better target then a token.....JMO
You made a critical mistake somewhere in this post and I'm not sure if it's selling Goyf or running SKinshifter over him.
selling 4 pieces of cardboard for 400 bucks, not really a mistake. Replacing them with Skinshifter.....not bad......so where did I make a mistake?......
Because as long as you ever plan to play this game and as long as the color green exist Goyf will always be a good card to have and one day you are going to want them back.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK!
"ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day ..."
"MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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