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Switch to Forum Live View 09/02/2011 LD: "Garruk Flips Out"
2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 12:24AM #41
AluminumAngel
Date Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 12
I was wondering why the text frame was all black, then I relized it's a planeshifted version of a hybrid text frame.  Hybrid text frames are normally light gray.  This one is dark gray.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 12:33AM #42
TobyornotToby
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2006
Posts: 2,324
The first question on my mind when I saw him wasn't answered in the article. Why does he have a hybrid frame instead of a gold one? Is that because of a design rule or because of the consideration for color blindness???

Sep 1, 2011 -- 11:22PM, GreenBuster wrote:

For those that are complaining about two different tokens, what have you been doing when your Wurmcoil Engine dies or you play Bestial Menace ?




Indeed!

Sep 1, 2011 -- 9:08PM, La_Cebolla wrote:

WTF!!!???Why dont they just quit with the planes walkers and go back to Legendary Creatures with no Mythic rarity




And get rid of the stack while you're at it! And give us back bands with others, so much untapped design space!

Legends can't be kept from plane to plane.
Mythic makes them money.


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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 12:48AM #43
Dragon_Bloodthirsty
  • Warm, wet and squishy inside
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2003
Posts: 364

Nifty, I hadn't considered a flipping Planeswalker (not that I gave it much thought).  The front face has enough action to be interesting, although with two decently good versions of Garruk won't there be some of the "Legendary" part of the Planeswalkers coming into play?  I play Garruk, flip him, you play Garruk, they both go away?  Anyway, I expect this guy will nearly always come into play and nail something small to get flipped, even if I do have dreams of pumping out 2/2s all day long.


I think spewing out a steady stream of 2/2s is decent, but not great.  What bothers me most is how the back face is "black", but in looking at the individual abilities I don't think any of them are completely out of green, so I'm probably over reacting.

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 12:52AM #44
Lobster667
Date Joined: Sep 30, 2010
Posts: 5,510
Looks great to me. Excited to try Innistrad!
A First look at Dragon's Maze Limited - New article up!
IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 1:31AM #45
Pegaweb
  • YMtC Champion
  • Ceci n'est pas une porte
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2004
Posts: 2,938
I'm not a big fan of this design at all. This is likely the wordiest card in the history of Magic. All the normal conventions of good planeswalker design seem to have been thrown out, to try to achieve some specific flavours.

I would've thought that adding a non-activated ability on a planeswalker was something to be avoided at all costs. It's unnecessary and clunky here, and it's a sixth ability on the already-wordiest card ever. Not only is it poor in those departments, it's also a bit random. Garruk trasnforms when either a creature hits him, or when he eats a 2/2. That's not exciting, nor does it make sense. Surely it would've been possible to have the transform ability be part of one of the abilities. It's almost always going to trigger because of Garruk using his second ("fight") ability anyway.

There are two interesting transformation conditions that could've been used here. One is that both sides have one ability that transforms the card, and he'll switch back and forth a few times during the game. Another is that Garruk's front face ultimate also transforms him. (It wouldn't be a very difficult ultimate ability to pay for, maybe a "fight" ability that costs -4 or -X, with the other ability on the front being a normal +1.) It'd be like he levels up into evil super-Garruk.

Given that most three-ability planeswalkers use simple abilities where possible - because it cuts down the complexity of an already complex card - I would've assumed that such an approach would've been applied at least as much to a planeswalker with six abilities. However, there are multiple complex abilities on this card. Creating two different but similar Wolf tokens is just crazy. Four of the five real abilities on the card are more complicated versions of simpler abilties. The ultimate ability's graveyard-overrun ability is directly anti-synergistic to the token-making abilities. People would be most likely to sacrifice one of their breeds of wolf to tutor for a creature, and not sacrifice a real card creature. After all, once Garruk has transformed, he's going to have to make at least one wolf, before doing his ultimate ability. So his ultimate is not really related to the first two abilities. If you draw Garruk early, you won't use his ultimate at all. If you draw it late, you'll make two wolves, and batter the opponent for 14. With so many complicated abilities, a web of much more interesting abilities could've been created. (Or the same planeswalker could've been created with five or four mostly-simple abilities.)

I see part of the complexity problem here as being that the back of Garruk has been forced into black-green, by trying to make three G+B abilities, rather than abilities that are G or B, or even just abilities that overlap (like unearth) or stick together nicely (like destroy target permanent).

This card is an iconic new planeswalker, yet it looks like it's plagued by poor design choices.

That's my two cents anyway. :>
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 1:33AM #46
LMTRK
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Posts: 7,078

Hmm...

Not sure if I like this.

Not because its a DFC or anything like that, Im just not sure I like how he will play.

I cant put him in my Rhys the Redeemed Commander deck, since his backface is black.

He cant transform if he has 0 Loyalty, and doesnt get to reset his Loyalty when he transforms.

I feel like you have jump through too many hoops to use him, and even then, its not that rewarding.

Maybe its a good thing, since I wont feel so bad if I dont get one? :/

~ Tim

I am Blue/White
Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig Show

May 23, 2013 -- 10:32AM, zammm wrote:

May 23, 2013 -- 10:06AM, Adroitmind@gmail.com wrote:

Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?

Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]


Jan 5, 2013 -- 9:32PM, RPJesus wrote:

Jan 4, 2013 -- 5:20AM, LMTRK wrote:

That makes no sense to me.

If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed?

~ Tim   


Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch . YAY COLOR IDENTITY


Oct 26, 2012 -- 9:56PM, zammm wrote:

Oct 26, 2012 -- 12:24AM, Raeoran wrote:

Is algebra really that difficult?

Survey says yes.


Jul 7, 2011 -- 12:59AM, Novacat wrote:

Jul 7, 2011 -- 12:36AM, LMTRK wrote:

You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.


I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 2:07AM #47
lordofthekithkins
Date Joined: Jun 6, 2010
Posts: 1
Haters gonna hate.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 2:11AM #48
Highwayman
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2004
Posts: 3,132
Going to win games all by itself.

Going to be in most green decks.

Going to be expensive.

Going to be near-impossible to trade for.

Going to continue my hate of the mythic.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 2:24AM #49
alextfish
Date Joined: Mar 16, 2004
Posts: 1,489
This looks like the most useful DFC yet. Which is a real pity. I'd hoped the Marked Cards mechanic would disappear into an abyss, but this card is easily splashable into any part-green deck (more so than any previous green planeswalker), and provides removal and tutoring - two of my favourite things. He's going to keep turning up in card searches for when I want to build some casual deck, and I'm going to have to keep saying "No, I don't have that many card sleeves" or "No, I'm not playing with Fiddly Marked Cards in this deck".

He's also a spectacularly bad choice for a DFC, because you really have to pity the poor, poor players who draw a checklist card with "Garruk Relentless" checked. Good luck remembering all six abilities' costs/triggers, effects, and the starting loyalty. Yick.

Magic has often had environments which reward the player with an encyclopaedic knowledge of the environment. Fair enough. But you have to have literally thirteen pieces of trivia about this one card memorised in order to know whether to play him or not when you draw him. Thirteen pieces of information that aren't printed on the card you draw.

In fact, even if you're not using checklists and you've got opaque sleeves, you still have to remember all the details of the back side to know whether to cast him...

Ugh. I just keep coming back to "I can't believe Wizards actually played with these cards and found the absurd fiddliness was worth it". 
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2011 - 2:28AM #50
MisterDubs
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2011
Posts: 555
I'm loving the DFCs, I think they bring in a whole new dimension to the game, and Garruk, the Relentless is no exception. My only gripe about this card though is that I think he needs to have 4 starting loyalty counters rather than 3 to make him more playable, at the moment I think he's to vulnerable, especially with his Tranform condition.
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