After all this time, I realize I don't actually know how proliferate works. I read the tip card that came in with packs and boosters of Scars, but I still don't get it.
I understand that proliferate can target counters on any number of permaents or players.
If there's different types of counters, it can only increase one of them.
I was wondering though, can I decrease the counters? Like, remove them entirely? I was talking with a friend over whether or not it was possible to un-poison yourself.
Also, a question about priority:
Can I cast 2 or more spells in a row, provided that they're instants of course, placing them on the stack on top of eachother, before my opponent has a chance to react? Reading some stuff, I have a feeling I've been cheating my friend for quite a while now.
Although, if I have to give my opponent's priority for each spell I play, that might allow me to do silly mindgames with things at instant speed.
Another question though, if I cast an instant, and then pass priority, and they choose to do nothing, and priority passes back to me, and I do nothing, does the game automatically progress to the next phase, disallowing both players from casting instants until the next phase where it's allowed?
And what are all the phases that players get priority?
As a matter of fact, I don't understand how APNAP works.
Sorry, that turned out to be more questions than I originally set out to ask.
Proliferate only does what the tip card says it does. It doesn't mention being able to remove counters from anything, so it can't. In particular, there is quite intentionally no way to use it to reduce the number of poison counters you have.
(Also, Proliferate doesn't target anything, and nothing targets counters.)
You can cast two spells in a row without giving up priority (provided the second one is an Instant or has Flash of course), but this does not deny your opponent the opportunity to respond to them. He can add, say, a Cancel to the stack at any point, targeting anything on it.
In your scenario about priority passes, the answer is either "no" or "that can't happen in the first place", depending on a crucial piece of information you left out - what did your opponent(s) do when he/she/they had priority? The current phase or step ends when all players pass priority in succession with the stack empty. It doesn't matter how many times any given player passes, all players have to pass for the phase or step to end. (Thus, after any spell or ability resolves, everyone will always get at least one more opportunity to cast something that phase or step).
Players get priority in every phase and step except the untap step and, usually, the cleanup step. (They do get priority then if the various cleanup actions cause any abilities to trigger.)
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
I was wondering though, can I decrease the counters?
No.
701.23a To proliferate means to choose any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter, then give each exactly one additional counter of a kind that permanent or player already has.
Can I cast 2 or more spells in a row, provided that they're instants of course, placing them on the stack on top of eachother, before my opponent has a chance to react?
Yes. It's rare that you would want to, but you are allowed to respond to your own spell. Make sure you explicitly say that that's what yo uare doing.
Another question though, if I cast an instant, and then pass priority, and they choose to do nothing, and priority passes back to me, and I do nothing, does the game automatically progress to the next phase, disallowing both players from casting instants until the next phase where it's allowed?
If both players pass in succession, the top spell or ability on the stack resolves. If there are no spells or abilities on the stack, instead the current step or phase ends.
And what are all the phases that players get priority?
Players get priority in all steps and phases, except the Untap step, and most cleanup steps. Players get priority in the cleanup step only if something triggers or if a state-based action happens (for example, if a creature dies in the cleanup step).
As a matter of fact, I don't understand how APNAP works.
"APNAP" just means "Active Player, Non Active Player". If two players need to do two things at the same time, they make their choices in "APNAP order" (ie, the active player makes his choice first, then the nonactive player makes his choice), and then both choices are executed simultaneously.
(You choose any number of permanents and/or players with counters on them, then give each another counter of a kind already there.)
Basically, when you proliferate, you look at each permanent or player. If that permanent or player has any counters on it already, you can choose a kind that exists on that permanent/player and put a single other one on. You'll only ever put one more counter on a permanent/player with a single proliferate effect, regardless of how many different types of counters exist on that player/permanent.
You can't decrease counters with proliferate as nowhere in the rule does it allow you to do so. You only ever add counters with proliferate.
2. Whenever you add a spell or ability to the stack, you retain priority. Whenever a spell or ability resolves, the active player - that is, the player whose turn it is - gains priority. So you can add a few instants and abilities to the stack before your opponent gets a chance to respond, but the second one of them resolves, the active player gets priority.
If you cast an instant, you'll regain priority after putting it on the stack. If you pass priority, then your opponent passes priority, the instant will resolve. If the stack is empty and all players pass priority, the game moves to the next step or phase.
Players get priority in every step except the untap step and cleanup step.
APNAP (active player, non-active player) is ther order in which abilities triggering at the same time are put on the stack. For example, if your opponent controls a Sheoldred, Whispering One and you control a Mind Unbound , you'll both have an ability that triggers at the start of your upkeep. As different players have different abilities triggering at the same time, they go on the stack in APNAP order - that is, the active player puts their abilities on the stack first, then the non-active players (in turn order) put their abilities on the stack, with the last ability put on the stack being the first to resolve. In this case, the active player puts Mind Unbound on the stack, then the nonactive player puts Sheoldred on the stack. Sheoldreds ability resolves first, causing the active player to sacrifice a creature, then Mind Unbound resolves, causing the active player to draw cards.
Hope that helps a bit.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans.
After all this time, I realize I don't actually know how proliferate works. I read the tip card that came in with packs and boosters of Scars, but I still don't get it.
I understand that proliferate can target counters on any number of permaents or players.
If there's different types of counters, it can only increase one of them.
I was wondering though, can I decrease the counters? Like, remove them entirely? I was talking with a friend over whether or not it was possible to un-poison yourself.
Proliferate doesn't target.
When you proliferate, you choose any number of permanents with counters on them. For each one, you choose a type of counter on it and add another of those counters. For example, proliferating a Tumble magnet with 2 charge counters and a creature with a -1/-1 counter on it will result in a tumble magnet with 3 counters and the creature with 2 -1/-1 counters.
You can not remove counters by proliferating. Can I ask why you thought you could?
Can I cast 2 or more spells in a row, provided that they're instants of course, placing them on the stack on top of eachother, before my opponent has a chance to react? Reading some stuff, I have a feeling I've been cheating my friend for quite a while now.
If you say you are retaining priority after casting a spell, you can. However, this is rarely useful.
If you cast two spells, your opponent can counter either of them or wait for the first to resolve then counter the other. What were you trying to do?
Although, if I have to give my opponent's priority for each spell I play, that might allow me to do silly mindgames with things at instant speed.
For any spell to resolve, both (or all) players must pass priority in succession. You must give your opponent priority after you cast a spell and they must pass it before the spell can resolve.
Another question though, if I cast an instant, and then pass priority, and they choose to do nothing, and priority passes back to me, and I do nothing, does the game automatically progress to the next phase, disallowing both players from casting instants until the next phase where it's allowed?
When your opponent passes priority, the spell resolves. Once it has resolved, the active player gets priority. Each player must pass priority on an empty stack before the game can continue.
As a matter of fact, I don't understand how APNAP works.
When multiple triggered abilities would be put on the stack at the same time, they are put on the stack in Active Player- Non-Active Player order. First, the active player puts his triggers on the stack in any order, then the non-active player puts his triggers on the stack in any order (so they resolve first).
For example, both players control a Perilous Myr and are on 2 life. On his turn, player A casts Wrath of God . Both Myrs are destroyed and go to the graveyard at the same time.
Player A's ability goes on the stack first, so player B's resolves first. Assuming B's myr targets player A, player A will lose before his ability can resolve.
Hopefully I cleared everything up- tell me if anything I said was unclear.
Thank you, everyone. I think it's really great that this little board has people that will type detaile posts to help a player, independently, only seconds apart from eachother.
I do have another question though. I have a creature that is enchanted or equipped with something.
My opponent Mind Control s it, and gains control of the creature. Do they gain control of everything attached to it as well? My stubborn friend seems to insist that this is the case, when DotP informs me otherwise.
No, they don't gain control of the things attached to your creature. But those things do stay attached. So if it is enchanted with giant strength it still gets the +2/+2, but if it is enchanted with FireBreathing he can not activate it because he doesn't control it.
The Auras and Equipments stay on the creature, however, control of those Auras and Equipments do not change.
By the way, a place where having two spells being thrown out at once works: Sorin's Vengeance followed immediately by a flashed Magister Sphinx on an opponent who has lots of life.
Try me. "I want to find a way to organize my beans without wasting any of those beans, and then find a way to optimize those beans for maximum use."
After all this time, I realize I don't actually know how You can not remove counters by proliferating. Can I ask why you thought you could?
I guess my friend and I were looking for any legitimate way to un-poison ourselves, because while life can be restored, poison counters seem very permanent.
Also, thank you K-Mogg on the answer to that question. Now I just need to convince him that this is the case. I have a friend that carries around a ream of paper with the Complete Rules when we play Magic, just for looking up obscure rules, although it's difficult to use if we can't agree on how it's interpretted.
