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Aug 8, 2011 -- 7:12AM, Jakusotsu wrote:

Aug 8, 2011 -- 6:59AM, GreenBuster wrote:

The combat he is referring to is creature vs creature combat.  If you have an effect that gets around your opponent's creatures then the ability is apparently not very fun.  What it is actually is fun for you and not fun for your opponent.

So you're telling me any kind of evasion like Flying or Landwalk is actually bad and you'd rather have Limited games won by decking due to giant stalemates?

Did I say that that was MY opinion?  I was merely trying to state what I believe the opinion is of the comment you were referring to.

I personally don't care either way.  I am happy with massive creature based combat and using creatures with evasion abilities to get to the opponent. 

Aug 8, 2011 -- 3:31PM, Axterix wrote:

The dragon is a bit of a waste.  Biggest problem with it is that bloodthirst is rather pointless at its casting cost.  By the time you have that much mana, if you are getting damage through (so you can get bloodthirst), you don't need a 12/12 flyer.  And, of course, a 6/6 flyer is about as good.  Card would have been better with trample and costing 7, with either less bloodthirst (say 4 instead of 6) or, better yet, something else instead of it.  Personally, I'd rather play the rare dragon from the set than the mythic one.

Aug 8, 2011 -- 7:12AM, Jakusotsu wrote:

So you're telling me any kind of evasion like Flying or Landwalk is actually bad and you'd rather have Limited games won by decking due to giant stalemates?

There'a reason why landwalk is rather rare and most walkers on the small side and why anti-flying defenses are pretty widespread, be it with flyers of your own, reach creatures, or other things

If they did intimidate, it would have to be in a set that is heavy on artifact creatures, to insure it doesn't completely break limited.

What are you all talking about? Intimidate is evergreen. Hideous Visage . It's also in both Zendikar block and Scars block .

And yes, it's a tough balance between making creatures able to hit (and thus end the game) and encouraging blocking (which is more fun than what is effectively pinging, when unblockables attack). However, unblockables aren't unfun. They're nice when they're on your side, and they're an adrenaline rush when you're against them. Now you're on a clock. Draw a removal spell or kill your opponent before his unblockable creatures kill you. How many games do you remember where you blocked every creature that attacked you? How many where you drew the removal spell you needed at exactly the right time to pull out a come-from-behind victory? Sure, it may be frustrating to lose to them, but they serve a crucial role in the game (preventing deadlocks, adding excitement). A game has to end to be fun. Most people don't enjoy stalling out to time every round at events.

Aug 8, 2011 -- 9:12PM, Axterix wrote:

Aug 8, 2011 -- 4:38PM, chronego wrote:

What are you all talking about? Intimidate is evergreen. Hideous Visage . It's also in both Zendikar block and Scars block .

Obvious failure to understand.

By "doing intimidate" I mean actually doing it, giving it a presence, like flying or M12's Bloodthirst, not a token couple of cards.

Unblockable stuff can be okay, but having games constantly decided by it is not fun.  That is why unblockable things are typically small and few in number (landwalk, intimidate, cannot be blocked), while things that are just evasive are more common.

Which means the only way they could give intimidate a heavy presence would be to make sure that it becomes like flying, stands a good chance of being blocked.  And that most likely would mean lots of artifact critters.  They could have, for example, made it a theme in Scars, that being the first set in artifact block.  They could not, however, do so effectively in a core set like M12.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's just that the first time Intimidate was mentioned, it was mentioned in a discussion about Scry and Bloodthirst, and included in a list of other potential coreset returning keywords with reasons why they don't work. I assumed we were discussing it as a potential replacement for Bloodthirst in M13 or later. Which it can't be, because it's evergreen already.

Your point is entirely valid. Evasion is only fun in smallish quantities. However the occasional humongous finisher with evasion is nice, as it puts games away when they start going long. Better to have your opponent end it quickly than to sit there having him continuously locking you out while he pings you to death or waits for you to die to decking...