Titans: I don't think seeing these back is the worst thing in the world, but I don't think you guys necessarily need to as a rule repeat the new chase cards from the last core set in the latest one. I think it would probably be okay to reprint all three of the new Planeswalkers for M13, and Baneslayer Angel/Lightning Bolt were only two cards, but reprinting a full cycle of five format defining cards is something that you should seriously give a hard look at next time something similar comes up. If there weren't any compelling reprints to do in those slots as the article says then you could have done new Mythics and only had four reprints at Mythic: I assure you, no one will be complaining if they aren't opening reprints up in the mythic slot in their packs/boxes.
The dual lands are somewhat exasperating to see again if only because every core set I get my hopes up that it will be fetches or shock lands again. With the ally fetchlands specifically I remember in the Onslaught preview articles that you guys said you gave them generic names because you wanted to be able to easily reprint them without them seeming out of place in a future set... helloooo, it's been nine years now? Where did that enthusiasm about reprinting these lands go?
This post comes from a player who was casual from 1993-2000, lost interest in the game, and came back upon a random chance of seeing a setlist of M11 as I wandered through a comic shop one day. I bought a box and jumped back in with both feet.
I am happy to say that I am happy to see reprints on both fronts. Jaw-dropping shockers like the Titans was one of the primary motivators for me to pick up a deck again. I got bored with the game and felt like there was not enough chances being taken by developers to push the envelope and make creatures FUN. Are they overpowered? Sure. They're Titans. They are the embodiment of their color, and they (rightfully so) change the game if they make it onto the battlefield. Admittedly, no one likes getting thumped by a Inferno or getting zerged by a Grave, but I'm okay with that. If it's that big of an issue, you learn the meta-game at your location and find ways to work around it (I don't play bigger than FNM typically).
Dual-lands I'm always happy to see. Would enemy colors be nice? Sure, I suppose so. Perhaps the key there is rotate them with every set? Friendly-Enemy-Friendly, etc. I think they're fine for now and I have no complaints.
If you're going to take any comments here to heart, I suppose the issue of reprinting mythics is that there are an equal amount of ways to dispose of them quickly rather than force folks to play blue to counter them. M12 seemingly has ways, (orings, blades, webs) to deal with them, but perhaps there needs to be one extra mode of creature control at uncommon to deal with buggers effectively (Ye olde Meekstone comes to mind. I use it in commander). I don't have M12 memorized yet, so I won't pretend to know what that is or what it stands to be, but overall I have no complaints. Keep up the good work.
I'm ecstatic about the duals being reprinted again, because I think they all have good core set 'flavor' and I get to use my m10 and m11 lands for another year and a half. Heck, I wouldn't mind if these duals became permanent additions to the core-set. I would however like to see them at Uncommon. I think enemy duals could be done in the zendikar uncommon/enters tapped variety, minus the gain life trigger.
I'm glad you reprinted the duals. I STILL don't have my 20. Bump 'em down to uncommon and throw enemy duals into the rare slots if you really must shake it up.
Edit: Also, I'm still angry at Forsythe for implying everyone knows about football and dropping obscure terms and not explaining them.
I'm glad you reprinted the duals. I STILL don't have my 20. Bump 'em down to uncommon and throw enemy duals into the rare slots if you really must shake it up.
I agree with this 100% These going uncommon in place of the life-gain artifacts, and making enemy duals rare would be a great idea. Even these rarities would serve to tell new players: "These colors work well together. These others...not so much." I know I've made many a Red/White deck that could of used such a land. I've also never cared for fetch lands or pain lands (other than City of Brass). They seem like they just take up a slot that a "real" land should be taking up.
I'm still torn on Titans. When I think about it though, every color has an answer to Titans, and just about any deck that hopes to compete in standard should be running a healthy amount of removal. I would think green would have a harder time dealing with them directly, and would probably have to rely on creatures with deathtouch.
People complaining about plummeting value though...I just don't get it. My first thought upon pulling a chase card from a booster pack is what I can do with it in a deck, not selling it. As others have mentioned previously, introducing a popular cycle of cards and then removing it in the following set would be seen as kind a of a dick move on WotC's part. Paying less for cards is always great for me. Only now can I compete in Standard, as I never had even a single copy of Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016
I'm a little surprised at all the Titan hate. I'm pro-Titan, and anti-land.
I mostly play EDH/casual these days; I got out of Standard when Mythics came out. As such, I don't have any animosity toward Titans, even if they do show up a fair amount in Commander decks. Mostly, I'm happy because the increased supply will drive down the secondary market and make them more affordable to casual players. I think having a two-set longevity in core sets is pretty reasonable for most mythics, which includes the Titans.
As has been said over the past few pages, the Titans aren't pushing other six-drops out of Standard -- they really mark the first time six-drops have been playable as more than a two-of finisher card. And they only fill that role because they're exponentially more powerful than the options for three through five drops which, honestly, aren't bad. Like I said, I just don't get the Titan hate. They're very playable, but -- excepting Primeval in Valakut -- they don't seem essential for Standard. And while they don't have the same sense of excitement to them (since they've been around for a year) I'm generally a fan.
The M10 duals, though, not so much. I thought they were a mediocre option when they were first released, and I still have that impression. They're not terrible, but they don't play nicely with other non-basics, and they're just really uninspiring. I've always thought the decision to not print the RAV shocklands in the core was a bad idea, though I defer to WotC's market research that says new players don't like them. I think a mediocre core set like M12 could've really used the boost, though, because they're tremendously popular with the existing player base. Heck, if they had dual lands that had basic land types, even if they were just, "Land - Forest Plains; ~ enters the battlefield tapped", they'd make casual players really happy because they're good fetchable color-fixing.
Again, I mostly play EDH, which is explosively popular right now. I think Wizards did itself a great disservice by not reprinting a lot of popular casual cards that are increasing in price in the seconary market. I know they didn't anticipate how popular Commander would be (as evidenced by the shortage when the Commander decks were released) but releasing cards like Doubling Season and Akroma's Memorial, even at mythic rarity, would've helped encourage a popular casual format while selling packs of M12. Printing shocklands would have the same effect, since those are basically format staples as well. Other than Simulacrum and a couple otherwise useless rares (Tutor Demon and FoF Sphinx) there's basically nothing in this set for EDH, which seems like a poor move given how popular the format is.
I'm a little surprised at all the Titan hate. I'm pro-Titan, and anti-land.
I mostly play EDH/casual these days; I got out of Standard when Mythics came out. As such, I don't have any animosity toward Titans, even if they do show up a fair amount in Commander decks. Mostly, I'm happy because the increased supply will drive down the secondary market and make them more affordable to casual players. I think having a two-set longevity in core sets is pretty reasonable for most mythics, which includes the Titans.
Good call, getting out of standard when Mythics came out. I tried the same thing, but then Zendikar happened and I just couldn't resist. Now, with Scars and M12 I thought I could duck out again once Zendikar left, but Innistrad is looking really amazing so far... Man, Wizards is good at making really interesting blocks!
As has been said over the past few pages, the Titans aren't pushing other six-drops out of Standard -- they really mark the first time six-drops have been playable as more than a two-of finisher card. And they only fill that role because they're exponentially more powerful than the options for three through five drops which, honestly, aren't bad. Like I said, I just don't get the Titan hate. They're very playable, but -- excepting Primeval in Valakut -- they don't seem essential for Standard. And while they don't have the same sense of excitement to them (since they've been around for a year) I'm generally a fan.
While I do agree with the point that it's not the Titans that are causing other fatties to not be played, I do feel the need to point out that they're not the FIRST time six-drops have been more than a two-of finisher. Kokusho was big in his day, I believe. I know for a fact that Bogardan Hellkite was big, though that probably doesn't count since he was comboed out. I guess the point I'm making is, Wizards didn't have to push the Titans this hard to make them see play. Yes, it's nice to see six-drops getting played. What I'm against is that A) The Titans limit what finishers people play: either you play fast aggro, or you finish with a Titan or the Sixth Titan ; and much more importantly B) Green loses yet another chunk of its identity when EVERY color gets an extremely efficient 6cc 6/6 saturated in upside.
Finally, I must point out that it seems a large number of the people who say they chose "yes" for the Titans' reprints have also said they don't play Standard. No offense to those who took this stance but it seems kind of unfair, as those who don't play Standard aren't impacted by the reprint at all, aside from the all-upside supply-increase/price-decrease. If you play any format other than Standard, the Titans in M12 doesn't change a thing for their legality in your decks. I think the poll should be changed to having the options: "Yes, and I play Standard", "Yes but I don't play Standard", "No, and I play Standard", "No, but I don't play Standard" and "Indifferent/Undecided". Same for the lands poll, obviously.
While I do agree with the point that it's not the Titans that are causing other fatties to not be played, I do feel the need to point out that they're not the FIRST time six-drops have been more than a two-of finisher. Kokusho was big in his day, I believe. I know for a fact that Bogardan Hellkite was big, though that probably doesn't count since he was comboed out. I guess the point I'm making is, Wizards didn't have to push the Titans this hard to make them see play. Yes, it's nice to see six-drops getting played. What I'm against is that A) The Titans limit what finishers people play: either you play fast aggro, or you finish with a Titan or the Sixth Titan ; and much more importantly B) Green loses yet another chunk of its identity when EVERY color gets an extremely efficient 6cc 6/6 saturated in upside.
I think this (B) is the best reason not to keep printing the Titans. You can't make a tight cycle of hyper-efficient fatties because hyper-efficient fatties are Green's thing. Nobody would suggest making a cycle of 1-mana counterspells for each colour (with Blue only getting instants, Red sorceries, Black creatures, White enchantments and Green artifacts) because it'd be breaking the pie. Wizards has done it previously with the Kamigawa Dragons, you are correct in this, but in that case the fatties were somewhat less efficient (mostly reliant on their death triggers) and they differentiated between the colours which should be better and worse at flying. Kokusho was harsh enough, and I guess that Magic will survive the Titans as it survived Kokusho, but I'm still sad about it.
Finally, I must point out that it seems a large number of the people who say they chose "yes" for the Titans' reprints have also said they don't play Standard. No offense to those who took this stance but it seems kind of unfair, as those who don't play Standard aren't impacted by the reprint at all, aside from the all-upside supply-increase/price-decrease. If you play any format other than Standard, the Titans in M12 doesn't change a thing for their legality in your decks. I think the poll should be changed to having the options: "Yes, and I play Standard", "Yes but I don't play Standard", "No, and I play Standard", "No, but I don't play Standard" and "Indifferent/Undecided". Same for the lands poll, obviously.
I'm sorry, but that's not a very fair statement to make either. You can argue that this will impact your meta far more than anyone else's, but a) increased supply means more Titans will find their way to casual tables, so it does impact casual meta and b) that is one pretty significant upside. Casual players are just as much of an audience to cater to with these sets as Standard players. I think most casual players are going to be excited about these reprints (except the whiny old coots like me who disliked the Titans to begin with). That is also important.
As has been said over the past few pages, the Titans aren't pushing other six-drops out of Standard -- they really mark the first time six-drops have been playable as more than a two-of finisher card.
Except that other than Primeval in one deck (two if Eldrazi Green counts), that's exactly the role they fill. They're just stupidly good at it.
When I object to the Titans' power level, it has nothing to do with pushing other six-drops out of Standard, though I do weep for poor Sphinx of Jwar Isle . My issue is what they mean for the health of the game. If Wizards decide they want to make a good six-drop, they have to push it to make it competitive with the Titans. We've seen this with Wurmcoil Engine . I don't want to see another year of that. I really don't want to see the Titans become the new standard of power, while the fatties R&D loves get pushed even further. I want an acknowledgement that the Titans went too far, and reprinting them is the exact opposite of that.
As has been said over the past few pages, the Titans aren't pushing other six-drops out of Standard -- they really mark the first time six-drops have been playable as more than a two-of finisher card.
Except that other than Primeval in one deck (two if Eldrazi Green counts), that's exactly the role they fill. They're just stupidly good at it.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Your problem is that the Titans are the six-drop finisher of choice? That just rings kind of hollow. If it weren't the Titans, it would be Steel Hellkite, or Wurmcoil Engine, or some other fatty. There's always going to be a best card for a given purpose at a given cost. If anything, the fact that all of the Titans see play in separate colors, rather than every deck splashing for one of them, should be praised.
