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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 10:27PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2009
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I seem to be one of the few here so far that enjoy the fact that the titans and the lands were reprinted. I for one not haveing $25+ per titan at times kept hoping you'd bring them back, just so i could at least get a chance to play with them in standard. Same for the duals, sure much more easily atainable(sp :S) still having many deck ideas and well....could never really seem to have enough of those.
A friend in our playgroup was hoping to not see either again, and if any lands, enemy colors. i would have been fine with those as well i suppose, just as long as you printed dual lands, i would have been happy. :P
Another thing i noticed about most post so far is that they all are mentioning how they don't liek the titans as of now, and how they are played in the current standard enviroment. None of us know what lies in store for us in Inistrad(sp :S). Some get better (Vallakut rotating out) Primeaval becomes more green....and less....red/green. None of us know.....but for the next 3 months yes.....yes what everyone says here maybe true :P
Overall i think the set turned out great, and with many people always around our house learning how to play I think it's very good.
The first time i have actually posted on one of your topics, and all I have to say are good things. :P
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 10:31PM
#32
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I'm fine with the lands because they are simple and efficient. However, I'd be inf avor of bringing back the refuges from Zendikar in the same rarities they were printed, uncommon, and also the creation of refuges for opposed color pairs. This would be fantastic for all the budget players that want cheap manafixing.
The refuges were nice but I certainly wouldn't call them "fantastic" for manafixing. They have no chance of entering the battlefield untapped, which is essential for a good dual land. Aggro decks especially need untapped lands or they miss their curve and outright lose.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 10:43PM
#33
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- The Smallest of Them All
- MPFG Season XIV Champion
Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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There's a huge problem with the Titans: They take up 5 Mythic Rare slots. Looking at M12, what are the chase cards in this set. Sure, we have new Garruk, Chandra, and Jace, but after that, the next most-chased after cards are, what, Visions from Beyond  ? Chandra's Phoenix  ? There aren't a lot of cards in M12 that are exciting. Having another 5 slots to spend on some other exciting Mythic Rare that's going to make me actually want to bust open some packs of M12 sounds much better. Removing the Titans also probably makes cards like Rune-Scarred Demon  and Sphinx of Uuthun  much better and much more interesting, whereas right now they're just another creature that's probably not going to get played over the corresponding Titan. I don't mind the lands (though I'm sure there are many other options in Magic) because they're fine duals that allow people to play 2 colors in Constructed. Maybe they could have done something else in that slot, but what they did is fine, and I'd rather have Glacial Fortress and friends than some other worse cycle. Uncommon is not the slot I want to see dual lands at, because a) those lands suck in Constructed and are only played when necessary and b) I think newer players opening a pack should learn that mana is important, and making these lands rare shows people that cards like these may not be as impressive as Grave Titan, but they're still important to have and they are powerful in their own right.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 10:44PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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I voted no for the titans, because, frankly, NPH was the first time I've been able to afford to play a competitive deck in the entire "mythic" era. (That deck being Phyrexian Sligh, which I consider a triumphant example of the little guy made up of cheap commons standing up to the mythic decks.)
Let me put it this way. How much money should a player be willing to spend on a Magic deck in order to stand a chance of winning a Standard tourney? Assuming "high" prices, if your answer was less than about $65, then you've messed up: that's what a deck made entirely of commons plus one playset of a tourney-worthy Mythic rare would cost. Name me the last archetype (aside from PhySligh) that played less than four mythics overall.
I voted yes to the lands. I'd rather see fetchs or shocks, but the former is too complex for the core set (you have no idea how often I have to explain to people in my playgroup that they don't suck) and the latter doesn't really feel like a core set include. But these? They're duals that encourage you to play with basic lands (feels very "core set") and shocks/betas (very "expert)!
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us  .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 10:44PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2006
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It says a lot when a r/g ramp deck is despised by the magic community and hardly anyone complains about the true u/r instant kill combo deck(splinter twin).
Yeah right, the magic community despised r / g ramp so much that they only stopped attending tournaments until a U / W control deck appeared and made said r / g deck unplayable. Only the handful of blue control snobs and magic writers despised valakut and when they do complain about it, they also mention splinter twin as the supposed only other playable deck (and where is the instant kill? Splinter twin can only be played at sorcery speed).
Once again, I absolutely hate this new design of 6 drops. You basically can't play normal agro or midrange decks anymore because the 6 drops are just stupidly powerful to the point where you can't win unless you play control or super rush agro.
Titans were fair at ALA-ZEN-M11 Standard. Valakut was only another deck of the bunch and the others weren't even staples. What really happened is that the power of the 3-4 drops plummeted brutally with Scars block. Cards like Bloodbraid elf, Knight of the reliquary and Sprouting Thrinax weren't replaced, so there was nothing useful for midrange to do on early turns. Currently, there seems to be a fix with cards like Blade Splicer and Hero of Bladehold, but they aren't enough. Restore the power of the middle drops and Titans are fair. So yes I backup the reprint of the titans and congratulate LaPille for holding its decision this time. Having cards above $20 rotate in an almost yearly basis is quite oppressing for us players, and those complaining about not receiving new mythics are playing right upon this game. Titans are fine, as long as they are recoginized as the peak of the power creep. We have recently seen that cards above them can only end in bans, but Titans have two redeeming qualities for being mythics: 1)They aren't obligatory 4-ofs for decks, and many decks work well with only 2-3 copies and 2)With the exception of Primeval, which is going to lose its partner soon, Titans fit in a variety of decks without making a single one of them over the top.
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards...
Screw limited
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 10:57PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2011
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Tom, yes im happy that both cycles were reprinted, but i believe that they have both lost there excitement. I think that might be cause we are being spoiled by new cards in core sets. We want both something new and exciting, yet we want something familar. It seems almost lose-lose to you with some people. As for me Im more interested with the answers to problem cards. It seems now that with the printing of o ring (which i hope is now a core set staple to be a powerful removal spell for powerful cards like titans and planeswalkers) that the banned cards seem less terrible. In AF's article he stated that sets need powerful anwswers to cards like JTMS. I agree. I believe you are all doing a great job and that magic is very fun right now. I love the last two draft formats. SoM-MBS-NPH and M12. M11 was very fun aswel.
Thank you for reading and one reprint i was glad to see again was harbor serpernt. its design is just so well. thank you again.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 11:04PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2011
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On one hand, I'm happy with the titans returning since it gives me another chance at getting them, and with them being such powerful cards, that is nice. On the other hand, they are very powerful cards, and as many people have said, probably a little good.
The duel lands are nice, but would have liked to see enemy lands. Also, I don't think many people are happy when the pull a rare land.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 11:10PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2008
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Wasn't happy to see Titans back. Before the spoilers for M12 I kept insisting to my clan mates that the Titans would not be making another appearance.
First, as has been mentioned, they're too efficient for their cost. Rarely will you see a deck curve out at anything other than a Titan. It breaks the fun for trying other things. People will argue that Wurmcoil Engine is seeing play, but it's almost always accompanied by a Titan.
Second, also pointed out, Wizards has said that mythics won't be tournament staples. Not such a big concern. I know some people don't like the idea, but mythics will make their way into decks regardless. After all, Planeswalkers are printed at Mythic and you won't see those leaving decks any time soon.
Third, the creative team shouldn't be including cards "just because we wanted to fill the slot with familiarity". If they don't belong there, don't put them there. If we ignore the Planeswalkers, there was only two mythics (also ignoring Protean Hydra due to rarity drop) that carried over from M10 to M11, Baneslayer Angel and Platinum Angel. That's not exactly a long standing record of keeping familiarity in the mythic slot.
The duals being back is a good thing. Driving prices down on needed lands helps new and returning players put a foot in the door of competitive play without having to pay an arm and a leg. I'll use the Ravnica duals as an example.
I was coming back from a two year absence. RAV/TSP were the current legal blocks. Did my research on decks and had a good idea of what I would have liked to play. Get to the card shop to start picking up my singles and started looking at the prices. $18 for a single land? No way did I want to spend $80 on only 4/75 cards in the deck and certainly not on land. So what did I do? I ignored Magic for another year and came back once the lands would have rotated out.
Moral of the story? Efficient lands should be accessible or it'll alienate new and returning players. New and "exciting" lands shouldn't need to be printed in the core set when it has lands that are functionally sound and make sense in a core set. I don't know where people keep getting the idea that the Ravnica lands will ever make a return, in a core set no less. The rules on what the lands can and can't do confuse many new players and they have no place in a core set.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 11:23PM
#39
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BAN THE TITANS!
They are overpowered and create a stranglehold on the format and everyone knows it.
I could not even justify playing the once super hard to aquire $50 Baneslayer angels a 5 drop... reprinting these was an absolute waste of value.
What chance do other cool 6 drops like Steel Hellkite or Massacre Wurm have... virtually a big fat zero!
Just to be clear I am not suggesting the titans should have been replaced with other cards that we would need to obtain to be competitive. There are already a bunch of awesome creatures that will unfortunately never see the light of day as long as cards like the titans oppress them.
This sets the standard for all competitive cards to NEED an enters the battlefield ability to be deemed playable and thats just bad for magic.
As for the lands if wizards refuses to give the players what they really want and need which is a complete reprint of all the Ravnica shock lands then at least an enemy color cycle of the M10 lands would have been exciting, different, and interesting.
The main reason formats like Overextended and Modern were created were to allow newer players that can not afford to play legacy, mostly due to the dual lands being on the reserved list, an opportunity to play a different eternal constructed format. The only way these newer players will support the new formats is if they have the lands they need to create whatever deck they want to play. If they do not want to reprint them in core sets thats fine as long as they reprint them soon.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 11:30PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2008
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I won't vote, because I see both glaring advantages and disadvantages. TitansPrice-drop. This one I don't think I need to explain. And for those who bought them while they were high for playing purposes could at least play them for one more year (I assume they play standard in this scenario.) Plenty of people are upset they ate up 5 Mythic Slots. But the article would have stated they would have simply be replaced by the likes of Baneslayer Angel  , Platinum Angel  , Demon of Death's Gate  , Gaea's Revenge  , which I believe most aren't cards that see widespread play nowadays. At least with the titans, your mythics have some value. And for those saying that they should be replaced with new cards, the problem lies that the new cards are either disappointing (like above reprints mentioned) or are even more powerful, which drives the price of standard up. The entire fault of the Titans is they were designed too efficiently. They don't obselete everything, but they obselete enough of them to kill diversity in finishers (short of each other). And green gets the shaft when it gets the arguably weakest titan (barring Valakut, P.Titan is technically weakest in a vaccum) and all the others have 6cc 6/6s, effective beatsticks (especially for the likes of blue.) The problem is the mistake is made. The prices are already set. They did the correct thing in reprinting the titans to drive prices down first. But after they have fallen, it would be time for the titans the leave the stage. Once everyone gets their desired titans for other formats (extended, EDH and so on...) standard needs to return to consisting of diversified finishers. Core Lands (Or at least, what I call them)
They suffer the exact opposite problem. Fantastically designed. Problem now, that by 2 core sets, almost everyone has their playsets and those who don't can easily afford them. Once "staple" rares hit some bottomline, there's resistance to price dropping further. I doubt they would drop to 0.25 actually. There's some rock-bottom value everyone would agree that it would be there because simply "Its useful. If I should sell any lower, I'd rather keep a few extra playsets for my own use." And then they're rare. Nobody wants to open a highly-price-suprressed-staple because everyone else already has it, even themselves. Only two ways to edge this problem. One, stop reprinting them for at least a couple of years. The other, is to reprint them as uncommons. Before everyone who goes "HURRAH YOU ARE RIGHT THEY SHULD BE UNCOMMONS (and some others, reprint shocklands as uncommons too!)", I actually don't think they should do it until M14, funnily enough. They still hold some miniscule value which I think will vanquish the progress of M13. Come M14, as uncommons, they will help in dropping their prices to uncommon tier. It also frees up space for other new cycles. Magic is an innovative game, and the same duals staying all the time stagnant there is a no-no. And they already made the stand that lands costing life won't be seen in Core Sets. So no Ally-Fetches (Or any fetches actually) or Shocklands, as much as we all wish so. I do hope WotC loses that mentality soon enough though. Life as a resource should be something taught to new players actually. Other StuffAlong with it, I think WotC should lax on Legendary Creatures. We have Planeswalkers with the same rulings mechanically, and already WotC are featuring stuff like Warstorm Surge  (Immerstrum) and Vengeful Pharaoh  (Which doesn't fit in most worlds, and none that we know of yet.) I would say the same for multicolored cards. I think simple spells like Lightning Helix  and stuff are actually great for teaching newbies about multicolor.
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