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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 7:41PM
#21
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How if the "thought lash" 2nd trigger is a delayed triggered ability?
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 7:47PM
#22
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603.7a Delayed triggered abilities come from spells or other abilities that create them on resolution,
or are created as the result of a replacement effect being applied. That means a delayed triggered
ability won’t trigger until it has actually been created, even if its trigger event occurred just
beforehand. Other events that happen earlier may make the trigger event impossible.
603.7e If an activated or triggered ability creates a delayed triggered ability, the source of that
delayed triggered ability is the same as the source of that other ability. The controller of that
delayed triggered ability is the player who controlled that other ability as it resolved.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 8:27PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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What was the point of quoting some of the rules specific to delayed triggered abilities? None of the cards mentioned in this thread have one.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 8:32PM
#24
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I quoteing some of the rules specific to delayed triggered abilities just because I wonder the "Thought Lash" 2nd trigger is a delayed triggered ability.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 8:35PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2005
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I quoteing some of the rules specific to delayed triggered abilities just because I wonder the "Thought Lash" 2nd trigger is a delayed triggered ability.
It's not. It's a normal triggered ability.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 8:41PM
#26
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Why and how to determine whether or not?
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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 8:42PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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603.7. An effect may create a delayed triggered ability that can do something at a later time. A delayed triggered ability will contain "when," "whenever," or "at," although that word won't usually begin the ability.
"When Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep isn't paid, exile all cards from your library." isn't created by any effect, it is simply printed on the Thought Lash card as a distinct ability.
Example of delayed triggered ability: Mimic Vat  's activated ability creates a delayed triggered ability: "Exile it at the beginning of the next end step."
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 8:41AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Dec 28, 2007
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Card Text: Cumulative upkeep—Exile the top card of your library. (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.) When Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep isn't paid, exile all cards from your library. Exile the top card of your library: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you this turn.
My understanding is that at the point YOU choose not to pay all cards are exiled from your library... The owner at the the time of trigger (beginning of upkeep) is you.
 You are Red/Blue!
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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 8:52AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2011
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It is a separate trigger that goes off if you do not pay the cumulative upkeep. But the trigger uses "you" to indicate the player that has to exile his library. And "you" can only ever refer to the contoller of the ability which is the same as the one who controls the source. And at the time the trigger fires, that is the opponent.
I'm a Rules Advisor now  "Simple questions" usually need rather complex answers, while complex questions often come down to no more than a simple "yes" or "no". Some of my favorite Flavor texts:
Show
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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 8:55AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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Card Text:
Cumulative upkeep—Exile the top card of your library. (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.) When Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep isn't paid, exile all cards from your library. Exile the top card of your library: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you this turn.
My understanding is that at the point YOU choose not to pay all cards are exiled from your library... The owner at the the time of trigger (beginning of upkeep) is you.
603. Handling Triggered Abilities
603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as "[Trigger condition], [effect]," and begin with the word "when," "whenever," or "at." They can also be expressed as "[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect]."
My understanding is that the trigger condition of "When Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep isn't paid, exile all cards from your library." is "When Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep isn't paid", not "At the beginning of your upkeep". The controller of the Thought Lash at that time is the controller of the ability. The owner at that time is irrelevant as usual.
603.3a A triggered ability is controlled by the player who controlled its source at the time it triggered, unless it's a delayed triggered ability. To determine the controller of a delayed triggered ability, see rules 603.7d-f.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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