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2 years ago ::
Jul 21, 2011 - 1:09PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2007
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Not sure why you don't want to just reprint Sower of Temptation  which you mentioned earlier? It still allows for the mind control type card to be reprinted, but it also gives all colors a chance to undo it and get their own creature back. As well as bumps of the rarity.
Because it essentially becomes "2UU: your opponent has one less removal card now".
A five-mana Control Magic as a one-shot sorcery is actually a damn good idea, and may actually be playable in Constructed.
Yet removal isn't as prevalent in limited which is the area of current problem according to the original post. Making it a small flying creature will still make it very powerful but at the same time give all colors a possible out to it. Doesn't mean you will have an out to it, but still gives you a chance for an out to it.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 5:16PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2009
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Mind Control is just one of the best abilities you can possibly get at uncommon. Of course, blue is also pretty good historically in core set, so that is part of why Mind Control is so good. In any case, I'm certainly behind getting rid of uncommon Mind Control. It is the #2 winningest cards in M11, which is just too good for an uncommon.
But if the effect is moved out of uncommon and into rare, then we can get things like Control Magic, which sounds awesome. Or we can print slightly less powerful Mind Control effects at uncommon. This seems like such a smart move overall.
 Check out Ars Arcanum, my stat based series on Magic Limited, over at PureMTGO. Here is a link to the archive: http://goo.gl/Zvh6Q
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2 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2011 - 7:51PM
#43
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The reason Mind Control  is so high on the list is because it takes your opponent's ridiculous bomb. It's a good threat to always have around to swing the game, rather than you staring at their Titan  and your Unsummon  and frowning. All you have to do to make Mind Control not good is quit printing good creatures...hmm, wait. It's better to have answers at least a rarity lower than the issues. Many bomb creatures are rare or mythic, I think Mind Control is fine as an uncommon. It still isn't a very good answer to the (non-green) "kill you with all the crappy 10 cent commons" deck that most limited formats have.
The end is always nigh.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 27, 2011 - 4:21PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2009
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From a business standpoint, players don't want persuasion  to be their rare. The simple fact that it could take up the rare slot could impact sales...I wouldn't want it. I have bought m10 and m11 boxes before, mainly because everything in them were all around good. M12 seems a bit clunky to me, and aside from primordial hydra  , I don't need anything else. As for the limited players, I don't think changing mind control  to rare is the best solution. To settle the dilemma, I wouldn't be surprised if WotC would just drop it from m13 entirely. That would solve the limited debate, and give casual players like myself room to, hopefully, get a new uncommon to play with. EDIT: I didn't know they reprinted persuasion in 10th, but it proves a valuable point. That ability was meh at rare, then made much better at uncommon.
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c ]Plains[/c] to make your post show Plains  . Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Show
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon  or doom blade  can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress  or counterspell  can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is.
One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scour  s at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour , you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding  (in the right deck) and mind funeral  . Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion  , hedron crab  , and curse of the bloody tome  , so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements.
Traumatize  Rant. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes  . You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes.
If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt  costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt . The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab , over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome , are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of   is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy.
There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets  in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator  in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 x post  to pay for X on sands of delirium  or for ambassador laquatus  . Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment[/c], it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind  , to be useful. Consuming aberration  is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb  and dreamborn muse  while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it  . There are always new strategies coming out with each new set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you!
Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
 : Order, Law, Faith.
 : Knowledge, Artifice, Control.
 : Corruption, Death, Self-Interest.
 : Freedom, Destruction, Victory.
 : Nature, Growth, Life.
 : Progressive, but too controlling.
 : Focused, but short sighted.
 : Skilled, but hypocritical.
 : Unified, but without a sense of self.
 : Cunning, but devious.
 : Inquisitive, but incautious.
 : Rational, but impulsive.
 : Powerful, but spiteful.
 : Instinctive, but selfish.
 : Fearless, but reckless.
Name:  Keino
 =100 Class: 
 x 236 Diety: 
 125/200
Weapon: Staff of Fire ( =2x dmg/ =4+3 dmg)
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2 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2011 - 5:49PM
#45
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Yes, Mind Control is the best uncommon in M10 and M11. We knew that already. Doesn't mean it has to be moved to rare. It's not unfun to play with or against, and there are plenty of games where mind control is the hero, not the villain (such as the oft-mentioned "steal a titan" scenario). Between sac outlets, bounce, enchantment removal, and protection-granting effects, there's also plenty of answers for it. Good != bad for the format
Check out my magic blog: http://magicthemusing.wordpress.com/
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2 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2011 - 7:16PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2009
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The point isn't that Mind Control is the top uncommon. The point is that it is the card with the second highest win percentage in M11, and the sixth highest in M10. That means that it is better than the majority of the mythic rare bombs, let alone the rare bombs. The problem is that it is so powerful that it shouldn't be appearing in the core set at uncommon.
Check out Ars Arcanum, my stat based series on Magic Limited, over at PureMTGO. Here is a link to the archive: http://goo.gl/Zvh6Q
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2 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2011 - 11:29PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2010
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Aaron Forscythe knows what he's doing (contrary to alot of the hate out there), but there is an everlasting fact that in spite of how good he has done his job (and how well he has taken responsibility for his screwing up), he has a habit of shooting his mouth off on twitter among other things for the simple fact that he can. At the end of the day, he's the one in charge, MtG in all of it's facets falls into his lap and so while permanent control might be his rant for this week, it's nothing certain and it doesn't make him a "scrub" for noticing how well the pieces he allows to get see print do by comparrison to how well he meant for them to do. This aside... I really wish he would use more discretion with his tweets and comments at certain public events because he likes to step on people's toes and take strokes which are far too broad for MaRo to keep eyes elsewhere. Mind Control probably isn't going to see reprint, because 4 years in a row is too much for almost any card to see reprint.
Signature by 
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2 years ago ::
Jul 30, 2011 - 5:52AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2011
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Aaron Forscythe knows what he's doing (contrary to alot of the hate out there), but there is an everlasting fact that in spite of how good he has done his job (and how well he has taken responsibility for his screwing up), he has a habit of shooting his mouth off on twitter among other things for the simple fact that he can. At the end of the day, he's the one in charge, MtG in all of it's facets falls into his lap and so while permanent control might be his rant for this week, it's nothing certain and it doesn't make him a "scrub" for noticing how well the pieces he allows to get see print do by comparrison to how well he meant for them to do.
This aside... I really wish he would use more discretion with his tweets and comments at certain public events because he likes to step on people's toes and take strokes which are far too broad for MaRo to keep eyes elsewhere.
Mind Control probably isn't going to see reprint, because 4 years in a row is too much for almost any card to see reprint.
Birds of Paradise  would like to have a word with you
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2 years ago ::
Jul 30, 2011 - 4:19PM
#49
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Mind control killed mr 4 times at fnm
My life as a pigeon. It was a direct statement. I didn't know that addressing you directly would have that effect on you. Please forgive me lil' lady. I might be an outlaw, but I'm a gentleman first; and your respect is very important to me.
>mfw
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2 years ago ::
Aug 01, 2011 - 9:19PM
#50
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2011
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Aaron Forscythe knows what he's doing (contrary to alot of the hate out there), but there is an everlasting fact that in spite of how good he has done his job (and how well he has taken responsibility for his screwing up), he has a habit of shooting his mouth off on twitter among other things for the simple fact that he can. At the end of the day, he's the one in charge, MtG in all of it's facets falls into his lap and so while permanent control might be his rant for this week, it's nothing certain and it doesn't make him a "scrub" for noticing how well the pieces he allows to get see print do by comparrison to how well he meant for them to do.
This aside... I really wish he would use more discretion with his tweets and comments at certain public events because he likes to step on people's toes and take strokes which are far too broad for MaRo to keep eyes elsewhere.
Mind Control probably isn't going to see reprint, because 4 years in a row is too much for almost any card to see reprint.
Birds of Paradise Giant Spider  would like to have a word with you
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