This one seems extremely playable...so why does the RBW one suck in comparison? *sigh*
Good things often seem to suck when you compare them to better things.
IMO it was a great move printing new cards in the commander decks since as Maro said it let them do something they haven't really been able to do up until now, print legendary wedge cards. Plus since commander is more of a multi player format it let them design with that in mind and I've liked what they've done with it.
Overall I like the idea of new cards showing up outside of boosters so long as it makes sense for it to be done.
Good things often seem to suck when you compare them to better things. IMO it was a great move printing new cards in the commander decks since as Maro said it let them do something they haven't really been able to do up until now, print legendary wed
Ah, so that's what happened to Duel Masters - it bombed in America but is still going overseas. I'm vaguely glad - I never got into the game because it looked like it was half Magic and half Yugioh, which was way more Yugioh than I could stand (the card names in particular were good at making me cringe), but I'm always sad when a creative project fails so I'm pleased to know this one has stuck around, however slightly.
Ah, so that's what happened to Duel Masters - it bombed in America but is still going overseas. I'm vaguely glad - I never got into the game because it looked like it was half Magic and half Yugioh, which was way more Yugioh than I could stand (t
The Mimeoplasm underwhelms me a bit. I really think it should have just had Imprint. Any reason this design couldn't work? (Note: I'm changing the name because I don't think "The" really works with this; I liked the idea at first but the design was too generic and flexible to make this seem like a unique entity, so I'm tacking on a proper name.)
Svogthir's Mimeoplasm Legendary Creature - Ooze, 2BGU, 0/0 Imprint - As Svogthir's Mimeoplasm enters the battlefield, you may exile up to two target creature cards from graveyards. Svogthir's Mimeoplasm has all activated and triggered abilities of the imprinted cards and gets +X/+y, where X is the combined power of all the imprinted cards and Y is their combined toughness.
(For the moment I'm not having it copy static abilities, since those are the least frequently awesome and since they include CDAs which cause all manner of rules problems. Really, Wizards ought to just find a way to isolate CDAs from other static abilities, maybe print them in red and rule that they don't actually count as part of the text box or something.)
The Mimeoplasm underwhelms me a bit. I really think it should have just had Imprint. Any reason this design couldn't work? (Note: I'm changing the name because I don't think "The" really works with this; I liked the idea at first but the design
Technically, it could work, but it's more math and more confusion for a significantly lower benefit--the P/T is harder to calculate and remember and a great number of players aren't solid on the differences between the various kinds of abilities.
Technically, it could work, but it's more math and more confusion for a significantly lower benefit--the P/T is harder to calculate and remember and a great number of players aren't solid on the differences between the various kinds of abilities.
I talked to someone at my local game store a few weeks ago about this product. Apparently, they pre-sold every copy the day Commander was announced. That's good news for Wizards but not so much for everyone else. My understanding is attempts to get more copies of Commander where turned down.
If this is the norm, there will be the same protests that were heard for the other one-offs. One shouldn't offer new cards unless one is willing to sell as many as are in demand. My guess is Wizards has no desire to undersell their product, so this will be eventually fixed, but this could become a problem.
I talked to someone at my local game store a few weeks ago about this product. Apparently, they pre-sold every copy the day Commander was announced. That's good news for Wizards but not so much for everyone else. My understanding is attempts to ge
The Mimeoplasm underwhelms me a bit. I really think it should have just had Imprint. Any reason this design couldn't work? (Note: I'm changing the name because I don't think "The" really works with this; I liked the idea at first but the design was too generic and flexible to make this seem like a unique entity, so I'm tacking on a proper name.)
There is too much borken involved in the alternative route, and not enough happening in yours (imprinting certain subsets of the cards' text). On the one hand, the imprint concept underwhelms because it means you HAVE to have activated or triggered abilities, and so it doesn't really CLONE, and is more ARTIFACT-y in imprinting. This is a Clone variant, make no mistake. On the other hand, it would be too powerful to grab Progenitus or Emrakul on the one (if you can get it fast enough) and something to make it indestructible (even though it won't stop Hallowed Burial or edicts).
This one means you can mix and match which two creatures you want: the body of one, and the power of the other. And it's based on that creature's power. Ever wanted to see a Boros Swiftblade as a 7/8? Just pull out your opponent's Ball Lightning (try not doing it the other way around...). There are nastier combos that get better when you get the right body with a great deal more power and cheaply. Blue and Red can easily mill through their library to dumb tons of useful creatures, and with tyhe heavy power component of Red's toys with the evasion of Blue's toys (but typically not the inverse), a single element combining these along with the efficiency of cost of throwing in a Green toy here and there means you can get some strong stuff going. Such a deck should easily favor unblockables and fliers with fatty utility cards (like Krosan Tusker and other cyclers!). And that's just using your own graveyard.
C'mon, Will, think a little!
There is too much borken involved in the alternative route, and not enough happening in yours (imprinting certain subsets of the cards' text). On the one hand, the imprint concept underwhelms because it means you HAVE to have activated or triggered a
Great article as always I like seeing insight behind the scenes on design of magic cards
Side note: I understand what your saying with communication, but I still don't know if I can believe it (the "i read eveything") because I've actually asked you a couple legitimate interesting design questions on your tumblr, and alas there is no answer. I would imagine you would answer questions like that of the ones I proposed. Maybe it just involves luck, and being lucky enough to become answered or am I just totally off here? Edit: and I don't want to be like , "oh MaRo doesn't answer my questions" but dang I thought those were not too bad tumblr questions...heh :p -na I understand you can't answer all of them and it's cool
Still good article nonetheless I'm really likin how wizards is treating the commander format and products accordingly, keep up the good work lol looks nice
Great article as always I like seeing insight behind the scenes on design of magic cardsSide note: I understand what your saying with communication, but I still don't know if I can believe it (the "i read eveything") because I've actually asked you a
Quicksilver Gargantuan can pretty much do that already. Actually the Mimeoplasm will seldom be much different in its implications than that, apart from the fact that you can't have several of them and the targets are in graveyards instead of on the field. (And it's cheaper, but five mana in three colors is only somewhat less difficult than seven mana in one color.) The card has some possibilities, but it underwhelms me compared to what it could have been.
Blue and Red can easily mill through their library to dumb tons of useful creatures
Not that you can play Red in The Mime's commander deck....
C'mon, Will, think a little!
I am not interested in operating on a small scale....
Quicksilver Gargantuan can pretty much do that already. Actually the Mimeoplasm will seldom be much different in its implications than that, apart from the fact that you can't have several of them and the targets are in graveyards instead of on
Aw, man. After the buildup of mentioning Meld, and the attempts to make it work, I was hoping Mimeoplasm would work better than that. It really is just a Quicksilver Gargantuan . I'd really hoped they'd found a way to make "copy two creatures at once" work properly. Quicksilver Elemental and Myr Welder are still the closest we've got there.
I mean, y'know, don't get me wrong - Quicksilver Gargantuan is fun an' all. It's good with all sorts of things, from Spikeshot Elder and Plague Stinger to Clockwork Dragon and Boros Swiftblade . Mimeoplasm is fun with the same things, except it needs a 6-power creature in a graveyard. (At least it doesn't need both its targets to be in the same graveyard.)
But it's not really anything new, and its flavour is clearly a stretch trying to make it a Legend. So... yeah, I'm not all that impressed.
Maybe I will be once I get to play with it. I guess it's nice to have another graveyard-Clone; Body Double and Dimir Doppelganger were pretty lonely compared to all the Clone-from-the-battlefield cards.
(EDIT: Yeah, willpell's design needs to add "and keyword abilities". Otherwise it gets Bushido but not First Strike, which is just crazily confusing.)
As for new cards in non-booster products: I don't much mind. I think it's broadly good as a way to get certain cards printed if a set fails to come along for them. I'm happy to buy certain cards as singles though, as long as their secondary price doesn't go too high. I don't know what the singles price for the new legends will stabilise at, but I imagine it could be reasonably low if bunches of these are being opened by dealers to sell off the Sol Ring s and Lightning Greaves .
Aw, man. After the buildup of mentioning Meld, and the attempts to make it work, I was hoping Mimeoplasm would work better than that. It really is just a [c]Quicksilver Gargantuan[/c]. I'd really hoped they'd found a way to make "copy two creatures a
The Mimeoplasm underwhelms me a bit. I really think it should have just had Imprint. Any reason this design couldn't work? (Note: I'm changing the name because I don't think "The" really works with this; I liked the idea at first but the design was too generic and flexible to make this seem like a unique entity, so I'm tacking on a proper name.)
Svogthir's Mimeoplasm Legendary Creature - Ooze, 2BGU, 0/0 Imprint - As Svogthir's Mimeoplasm enters the battlefield, you may exile up to two target creature cards from graveyards. Svogthir's Mimeoplasm has all activated and triggered abilities of the imprinted cards and gets +X/+y, where X is the combined power of all the imprinted cards and Y is their combined toughness.
(For the moment I'm not having it copy static abilities, since those are the least frequently awesome and since they include CDAs which cause all manner of rules problems. Really, Wizards ought to just find a way to isolate CDAs from other static abilities, maybe print them in red and rule that they don't actually count as part of the text box or something.)
But without static abilities, your Mimeoplasm won't actually be able to get any good keywords on it. The actual mimeoplasm is awesome with Akroma. This mimeoplasm doesn't really do a lot with Akroma. I personally think this execution is the closest we'll ever get to Meld.
Also, I think some credit should go to Sutured Ghoul as another attempt to make a sort-of Meld.
As far as printing cards goes, I think it's a great idea...for Commander. I don't think it's necessary for Duel Decks. Maybe Archenemy and Planechase would've benefited from original designs. I don't know, that depends on whether or not the design teams of those products ran into serious problems because of it. But, looking at the cards I've seen from the set so far, abandoning this unwritten law allows Wizards to print cards that would be silly in an actual set but make a lot of sense in a multiplayer set.
But without static abilities, your Mimeoplasm won't actually be able to get any good keywords on it. The actual mimeoplasm is awesome with Akroma. This mimeoplasm doesn't really do a lot with Akroma. I personally think this execution is the closest w
I like the idea of Meld. In modern magic, would it have looked something like this?
Meld - Sorcery (R) Imprint - choose two target creatures you control and exile one of them. Put X +1/+1 counters on the other creature where X is the power of the exiled creature. As long as the exiled card is a creature card, the other creature has that card's abilities, creature types and colors in addition to its own.
PS. I think most people are calling three-color non-wedge groups 'shards' and not 'arcs' now.
Finally, a use for those [c=leviathan]unplayable leviathans[/c], and a cool way to cheat into play [c=simic sky swallower]the playable ones[/c]I like the idea of Meld. In modern magic, would it have looked something like this?[c]Meld[/c] - [mc]2ug[/m
Phyrexian Dreadnought anyone? Play it, dont pay the cost, its 12 points of power in the Bin. Combine with something with tons of Keywords, and - blammo! - huge Creature.
[c]Phyrexian Dreadnought[/c] anyone? Play it, dont pay the cost, its 12 points of power in the Bin. Combine with something with tons of Keywords, and - blammo! - huge Creature.
Printing new cards outside of sets: I think it's a very good idea for 'alternate rules' products like Commander, Archenemy, Planechase, etc. For these products you could make cards you'd be reluctant to print in sets. I think that should be the guide.
This one seems extremely playable...so why does the RBW one suck in comparison? *sigh*
Because this one is the primary and that one was the secondary.
Printing new cards outside of sets: I think it's a very good idea for 'alternate rules' products like Commander, Archenemy, Planechase, etc. For these products you could make cards you'd be reluctant to print in sets. I think that should be the guide
The WotC policy regarding promos is very sound and let me just say that I am glad you have it. It's okay to relax it with regard to fixed products like Commander but keep away from convention promos.
UDE offered promos at Darkmoon Faires for the WoW miniatures game and it took them less than a year to release a broken one : Mortimer the Malign, only available to players doing Darkmoon Faires, that became an instant 3-of in one tournament-worthy warband (to understand what this means: a warband has exactly 3 characters in WoW minis... this means that people were actually just playing 3 copies of the promo and this was a deck). Many would say, in fact, that is was the top tier band in the game.
The WotC policy regarding promos is very sound and let me just say that I am glad you have it. It's okay to relax it with regard to fixed products like Commander but keep away from convention promos.UDE offered promos at Darkmoon Faires for the WoW m
MaRo]Are we doing the right thing? I'll be honest in saying that I think wrote:
Are we doing the right thing? I'll be honest in saying that I think so, but I'm not 100%. The thing I do know, though, is that the key to keeping Magic healthy long term is the willingness of R&D to try things out. As I often like to say, the greatest risk to Magic is taking no risks. I'm very curious to hear the feedback to today's column, because I'd love to hear what all of you think about having new cards in a non-booster product. Is this something we should do more of? I'm very curious to your feedback.
Sure! As long as the product is easy to get and the cards aren't tournament-viable (so that they're reasonably cheap on the secondary market). I'm all for more multiplayer-focused cards.
I'm a bit sad that you can't just pick up the Commander decks and use them to play Archenemy. Join force, Death by Dragons and other political cards would be devastating for the archenemy.
Sure! As long as the product is easy to get and the cards aren't tournament-viable (so that they're reasonably cheap on the secondary market). I'm all for more multiplayer-focused cards.I'm a bit sad that you can't just pick up the Commander decks an
Great article overall, and I like the design discussion. However, the preview was very anticlimactic. No discussion of possible card combos, or idealized hypothetical game states wherein this card is suddenly awesome? Get players excited about the preview card itself, not just the set as a whole. How about this?
I've got out Warped Devotion and Equilibrium, and my empty-handed opponent controls an Akroma, Angel of Wrath. I cast The Mimeoplasm, targeting Akroma with Equilibrium. Akroma returns to its owner's hand, and thanks to Warped Devotion, gets promptly discarded. The Mimeoplasm then resolves, and copies Akroma for abilities and gets +1/+1 counters according to someone else's Mortivore. Note also that both of those cards are exiled, and can't be later reanimated by my opponents. Sure, quite a contrived example, but lots of fun!
Great article overall, and I like the design discussion. However, the preview was very anticlimactic. No discussion of possible card combos, or idealized hypothetical game states wherein this card is suddenly awesome? Get players excited about the
I own a brick and mortar store. As a huge fan of Multiplayer, Commander, Wedges, and an uber-Johnny everything I've heard about the Commander Decks THRILLS me. As someone who relies on MtG to put food on the table, what this set represents scares me to death.
Every From-The-Vault and Duel-Deck that comes out is usually a big earner for me, I'm largely in favor of these products. But Planechase and Archenemy both were far less good for my bottom line because of the fact that they contain several unique products, yet I can only buy them in sets of 1 of each. I haven't made money until I sell 3 of those decks. But what if only 2 of them contain the really sought after cards? Its a brutal ballancing act for R&D to make products like this exactly equally desirable to players and I think they hit the nail right on the head for casual players, but casual players aren't the only group out there.
Competetive players are extremely willing to pay a premium to know what they are getting, and fairly unwilling to take a chance on random product. So they love stuff like this. They love to show up on the first day right when I open. They love to buy up every copy of the deck with the good cards, thus denying casual players access to it. They love to refuse to shop at my store again and spread negative word of mouth about me if I refuse to open a new case so they can get more of that deck. Certainly people like that are in the wrong, but you really can't grasp the gravity of the old addage "the customer is always right" until you've been in a situtation where pleasing jerks is the difference between eating and going hungry. I'd prefer WotC stop putting me in this position.
I own a brick and mortar store. As a huge fan of Multiplayer, Commander, Wedges, and an uber-Johnny everything I've heard about the Commander Decks THRILLS me. As someone who relies on MtG to put food on the table, what this set represents scares m
The common solution to that among larger sellers is to raise the price on the in-demand one as soon as they can identify which it is. For example, CFB and SSG both sell the NPH event decks at $30 for the Stoneforge Mystic deck and $20 for the "other" one, or $40 for both. As a dealer, what's your feeling on that solution?
The common solution to that among larger sellers is to raise the price on the in-demand one as soon as they can identify which it is. For example, CFB and SSG both sell the NPH event decks at $30 for the Stoneforge Mystic deck and $20 for the "other
It would have been more Vorthoseish for the creature to gain all the abilities of both creatures, true. But I think it might have been a rules nightmare even doing it the ways people in this thread have suggested. And even if the rules are simple, the actual gameplay wouldn't be. Morph? Level up? Linked abilities? Characteristic-defining abilities? While the rules might be unambiguous on all that stuff (I have no idea, and overall I doubt it, but I wouldn't be too surprised either way), it would be very easy to create incredibly complicated situations in games.
Great article overall, and I like the design discussion. However, the preview was very anticlimactic. No discussion of possible card combos, or idealized hypothetical game states wherein this card is suddenly awesome? Get players excited about the preview card itself, not just the set as a whole. How about this?
I've got out Warped Devotion and Equilibrium, and my empty-handed opponent controls an Akroma, Angel of Wrath. I cast The Mimeoplasm, targeting Akroma with Equilibrium. Akroma returns to its owner's hand, and thanks to Warped Devotion, gets promptly discarded. The Mimeoplasm then resolves, and copies Akroma for abilities and gets +1/+1 counters according to someone else's Mortivore. Note also that both of those cards are exiled, and can't be later reanimated by my opponents. Sure, quite a contrived example, but lots of fun!
That... looks like a good example of the confusing stuff I'm talking about. Isn't Mortivore 0/0 when it's not in play? Or is it? Any judges around here? And as unsure as I am about that, imagine how complicated gameplay would get if it had all the abilities of both cards. Your Akroma's size could be changed by exiling or reanimating cards from graveyards. Fun sometimes for some people, but very easily gets very confusing.
As for all the wedge color stuff, I'm hoping that we get a theme "wedge week" or something. Or maybe even one for each wedge, eventually. I remember when Ravnica was released there was a theme week for each guild, talking about its signature mechanic and what the two colors have in common and how they are opposed to each other and stuff. It might be interesting to read the same kind of thing about wedges. As for actual gold cards there aren't many in any wedge colors*, and most cards of one or two colors that mention the other colors of the wedge are designed to hose it. However, we're apparently getting a lot more of such cards soon, so it could be interesting to hear about the design (design, development, flavor, competitive power, etc.) of them. And besides, top-down design that puts three colors themselves all on one card is hardly the only appearances of wedges that matter. People have played wedges here and there since the game was new. Recently URG was a popular Constructed deck (which says something sad about the current Constructed metagame, since Jace is so good that you can throw him into a completely off-color aggressive deck and make it better, but that's not the point...). In Ravnica Limited, you basically had to play three colors, and there were some combinations that worked neatly when drafting one pack of each set, including at least one wedge: Boros-Izzet-Azorius.
What links each wedge together? The WBG wedge is easy: graveyards. They bring creatures back from the graveyard to the hand, to the top of the library, or to play, or regenerate to stop them from going to the graveyard entirely. The WBR wedge is a little harder, but I'd say it's based on board sweepers and symmetrical effects. Day of Judgment , Inferno , Consume the Meek ... White likes to be "fair" and balance everything, and black and red both like to kill everything for different reasons. As for the other three wedges, though, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that ties them together. What weaknesses does each wedge have? What's the flavor of each like?
* Not counting stuff in the Commander decks, which we've only seen a fraction of so far anyway, the WBR wedge has two cards, URG has two, WBG has three, WUR has two, and UBG has two. That's a weak cycle of both creatures and enchantments from the Apocalypse expansion, the Planar Chaos dragons, and the Treefolk lord from Lorwyn. 11 cards, all rare, all but one from cycles, in the entire history of the game. That's not a lot.
It would have been more Vorthoseish for the creature to gain all the abilities of both creatures, true. But I think it might have been a rules nightmare even doing it the ways people in this thread have suggested. And even if the rules are simple, th
I don't really like the idea of cards that you esentially have to buy up-front without the random factor thrown in. With annoying cards like Jace that, for me, shut me out of Constructed Magic entirely, it's the players that determine the value of the card. In this case, Wizards does that, thus ensuring a price cap for the card, but also making it difficult to pick up a playset of that whacky build-around-me rare no one likes for $1.
With that said, I understand where Mark is coming from with wanting to make cards for a certain subset of players but not being able to fit them into a current set. I'm a Limited player at heart, and sets need to cohesive to that end. The other upside is that these cards CAN be played in constructed Magic. The one thing I dislike about the annual fun gimmicky set is that they are self-contained and can't be put into a deck that you would bring to Friday Night Magic. This solves that, and at least they are legendary so it slighly dissuades you from wanting 4 copies.
I don't really like the idea of cards that you esentially have to buy up-front without the random factor thrown in. With annoying cards like Jace that, for me, shut me out of Constructed Magic entirely, it's the players that determine the value of t
Note that The Mime--- THERE'S A FREAKING TYRANNOSAURUS ON HIS ARM!---oplasm can hose opponent's graveyards. And if The Mim---A FREAKING TYRANNOSAURUS!---eoplasm ever dies, you can do this repeatedly, giving you a hideous amalgam of whatever horrors you can find among the graveyards of your foes using mill, discard, and your own efforts to find resources. (And Will, I meant Black, not Red, as I am sure was intended all along.)
The Mimeop---IT ACTUALLY IS HIS ARM!---lasm functions multiple roles, and has the chance to grow big, big, big. I see great effort focusing on using land cycling creatures, Mesmeric Orb , Life's Finale and kin, and lots of Regrow , just to enforce the card's structure itself. As mentioned before, a lot of small creatures get ridiculously strong when they are bigger, so getting fatties to dump counters onto double strikers, unblockables, untargetables, etc., becomes a deck to "work around" rather than people just putting it into the deck "because," like half of the Horde of Notions decks, which use it as a finisher, but not much more than that, and can frankly never cast it unlike most elemental-themed decks. This one is a lot more like Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed , or Maga, Traitor to Mortals -- pure utility.
Note that The Mime--- THERE'S A FREAKING TYRANNOSAURUS ON HIS ARM!---oplasm can hose opponent's graveyards. And if The Mim---A FREAKING TYRANNOSAURUS!---eoplasm ever dies, you can do this repeatedly, giving you a hideous amalgam of whatever horrors y
(I'd errata theNephilim to be legendary in a heartbeat if I was allowed to do such a thing.)
Why wouldn't you be allowed to? Other cards have had their types errata'd in the past and it's not as if you're going to ruin their power level for legacy play.
Just one question for me:Why wouldn't you be allowed to? Other cards have had their types errata'd in the past and it's not as if you're going to ruin their power level for legacy play.
(I'd errata theNephilim to be legendary in a heartbeat if I was allowed to do such a thing.)
Why wouldn't you be allowed to? Other cards have had their types errata'd in the past and it's not as if you're going to ruin their power level for legacy play.
They've often given creature type errata. They've given card type or supertype errata when rules changes necessitated it (e.g. when interrupts stopped existing in Sixth Edition, they changed all interrupts to card types and when world was made a supertype, they changed all "enchant world" cards to "world enchantment").
However, they've never given supertype errata just because they later decided a different supertype would be better. This is why Aladdin and Sindbad still aren't legendary. It would just be too big a functional change, and they don't want players to have to guess if a card is legendary or not.
[c]Mortivore[/c]'s ability is a characteristic-defining ability, so it's always active. If [c]Mortivore[/c] is in the graveyard, it'll even count itself.Why wouldn't you be allowed to? Other cards have had their types errata'd in the past and it'
It would have been more Vorthoseish for the creature to gain all the abilities of both creatures, true. But I think it might have been a rules nightmare even doing it the ways people in this thread have suggested.
willpell knows the rules pretty well (as do I). He was correct to avoid static abilities, because they could overlap in very brain-bending ways. But the way he did it would have worked from a rules perspective. Admittedly it would be very confusing to get triggered abilities but not static abilities.
That... looks like a good example of the confusing stuff I'm talking about. Isn't Mortivore 0/0 when it's not in play? Or is it? Any judges around here?
Nope. These days any */* creature's power and toughness are defined in all zones. (You'll note that this wasn't always the case; in particular, when the reminder text on Sutured Ghoul was written. That rules change made Sutured Ghoul rather better.
What links each wedge together? The WBG wedge is easy: graveyards. They bring creatures back from the graveyard to the hand, to the top of the library, or to play, or regenerate to stop them from going to the graveyard entirely. The WBR wedge is a little harder, but I'd say it's based on board sweepers and symmetrical effects. Day of Judgment , Inferno , Consume the Meek ... White likes to be "fair" and balance everything, and black and red both like to kill everything for different reasons. As for the other three wedges, though, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that ties them together. What weaknesses does each wedge have? What's the flavor of each like?
I've done quite a bit of thinking about that, like several other amateur card designers.
WGB has regeneration and reanimation, as you've mentioned, but also lifegain and +N/+N. WBR has mass destruction, as you said, and also direct damage. WRU has "gain control" effects (hm, although with the reprinting of Enslave , that may be more BRU), and also bounce - although white doesn't get to bounce the same things red does. GUB are most affiliated with card-draw, and they're the colours that generally get "putting cards from the hand straight onto the battlefield". RGU I couldn't come up with anything in common to those three colours but not W or B. I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts.
The other upside is that these cards CAN be played in constructed Magic. The one thing I dislike about the annual fun gimmicky set is that they are self-contained and can't be put into a deck that you would bring to Friday Night Magic. This solves that, and at least they are legendary so it slighly dissuades you from wanting 4 copies.
Ah - you may be misinformed there. Unfortunately, the Commander cards aren't legal in any constructed format except Legacy/Vintage.
willpell knows the rules pretty well (as do I). He was correct to avoid static abilities, because they could overlap in very brain-bending ways. But the way he did it would have worked from a rules perspective. Admittedly it would be very confusing t
Competetive players are extremely willing to pay a premium to know what they are getting, and fairly unwilling to take a chance on random product. So they love stuff like this. They love to show up on the first day right when I open. They love to buy up every copy of the deck with the good cards, thus denying casual players access to it. They love to refuse to shop at my store again and spread negative word of mouth about me if I refuse to open a new case so they can get more of that deck. Certainly people like that are in the wrong, but you really can't grasp the gravity of the old addage "the customer is always right" until you've been in a situtation where pleasing jerks is the difference between eating and going hungry. I'd prefer WotC stop putting me in this position.
Simple solution. As soon as you figure out which precon has the Jitte in it, charge double for that one. The competitive players will still pay for it. They may give you some attitude (don't they always?), but you're in the right. Just tell them that you know why they want it, and that it's clearly in demand at that price. They'll admit it and buy it. Actually, you're going to lose the first customer. He's going to go to Walmart and buy them out. But then poachers 2-9 belong to you.
And if someone you like walks into your store you can say "Oh, for you, those are all the same price." =)
Simple solution. As soon as you figure out which precon has the [c=Umezawa's Jitte]Jitte[/c] in it, charge double for that one. The competitive players will still pay for it. They may give you some attitude (don't they always?), but you're in the rig
Phyrexian Dreadnought anyone? Play it, dont pay the cost, its 12 points of power in the Bin. Combine with something with tons of Keywords, and - blammo! - huge Creature.
I like this card very much. I'm only not too much of a fan of the art, but we can't get anything perfectly according to our personal preferences, right?
Or just, you know, [c]Blighted Agent[/c].I like this card very much. I'm only not too much of a fan of the art, but we can't get anything perfectly according to our personal preferences, right?
I don't have a general problem with printing non-booster product like this, as long as it's made available for a decent amount of time. There's already been examples posted in this thread of certain duel decks and such flying off the shelves while the others gather dust. I love buying "boxed" product like this (I have all the Duel Decks and Planechase, though I haven't picked up the Archenemy decks yet), but $30 a pop for these, they'll have to be spread out. If I pick the wrong one to buy last, I may end up being out of luck.
There really needs to be a better way of re-printing things like this (and those old cards that came with the books while you're at it). Some sort of box like the Deckbuilder's Toolkit would be great.
Also, will we be seeing the wedge tri-color lands to complete the Alara tri-land cycle? (I think I might get a little annoyed if these do show up in this box instead of a regular booster product.)
I don't have a general problem with printing non-booster product like this, as long as it's made available for a decent amount of time. There's already been examples posted in this thread of certain duel decks and such flying off the shelves while th
When trying to figure out what mechanics tie the wedges together I would look at what the base color is and how the other two interact with it. GUR being my favorite, I think it is tied together with spell duplication a la Twincast, Reverberate and Wort, the Raidmother, and library manipulation a la Sylvan Library, Ponder and Riddle of Lightning.
I am salivating at the thought of what the two new legends for this wedge will do. Intet has a very fun and functional effect but she has become so predictable on the table.
We may not have wedge lands yet but we have something close: Irrigation Ditch (cycle) I wouldn't mind if they stuck with the elder dragon theme from the lair lands and just printed the wedges: Darigaaz's Caldera, Rith's Grove etc.
When trying to figure out what mechanics tie the wedges together I would look at what the base color is and how the other two interact with it. GUR being my favorite, I think it is tied together with spell duplication a la Twincast, Reverberate and
I'm excited about this product and plan to buy at least 1 of each precon.
That said, the con of which you speak is a concern to me as well. I hope to be able to pick up each for the MSRP of $30. I get a sneaking suspicion that if I wait any length of time after the release, I won't. The secondary market for Magic cards is a cruel place that Wizards has very little say in, and I grudgingly accept that. Unfortunately, the secondary market is too often the only place I can find premier Magic product. I too am guilty of possibly wanting several copies of one of these given decks if it has a singleton of a card that I desperately want for any of my other decks or cube, heaven help me if I want a playset of it. I don't want to be unable to reach that goal because the price of that given precon shot up to $50+. $200 is more than I'm willing to pay toward an entire deck, much less 4 cards for one.
I bought 1 of each Planechase and 1 of each Archenemy precon as well. Filled out my playsets (2 per) of schemes via Ebay, and begged, borrowed, and stole (not really stole) the max playable copies of each of the promos released for each variant. I just discovered yesterday that 2 more schemes have recently been released unbeknownst to me, despite being a regular Daily MTG reader. Back to Ebay I go, a sad and slightly poorer man.
In an unrelated note, why are some colored pairs so much stronger (at least obviously) than others? For a quick example I go to my cube. I allow for 4 non-sliver cards in each gold 2 color combination. GW has Novablast Wurm, Behemoth Sledge, Gaddock Teeg, and Mirari's Wake, with a list a mile long of other potential candidates. WB has Angel of Despair, Tidehollow Sculler, Mortify, and Vindicate, with a few more on the cusp of inclusion. BG has Pernicious Deed, Maelstrom Pulse, Lord of Extinction, and Putrefy, with again several other great candidates wishing they had a spot. With potential such as these is there's any wonder why people want more GWB generals? Whereas with combinations such as UR I'm forced to settle with Suffocating Blast, Jhoira of the Ghitu, Gelectrode, and Izzet Chronarch in my cube as the creme-de-la-creme (I just don't like Electrolyze as I can't justify paying 3 for a spreadable shock with cantrip). Why the power differentiation? Is it due to flavor? Is it due to limited design space in certain color combinations?
I'm excited about this product and plan to buy at least 1 of each precon.That said, the con of which you speak is a concern to me as well. I hope to be able to pick up each for the MSRP of $30. I get a sneaking suspicion that if I wait any length o
MaRo]Are we doing the right thing? I'll be honest in saying that I think wrote:
Are we doing the right thing? I'll be honest in saying that I think so, but I'm not 100%. The thing I do know, though, is that the key to keeping Magic healthy long term is the willingness of R&D to try things out. As I often like to say, the greatest risk to Magic is taking no risks. I'm very curious to hear the feedback to today's column, because I'd love to hear what all of you think about having new cards in a non-booster product. Is this something we should do more of? I'm very curious to your feedback.
Sure! As long as the product is easy to get and the cards aren't tournament-viable (so that they're reasonably cheap on the secondary market). I'm all for more multiplayer-focused cards.
I'm a bit sad that you can't just pick up the Commander decks and use them to play Archenemy. Join force, Death by Dragons and other political cards would be devastating for the archenemy.
I have to agree with our fellow - printing new cards in a non-booster product sounds great but how about the tournaments? Is there any chance, even a remote one that someday CMD become a tournament-legal product? I remember what happened with the Portal series years ago.
In Brazil, Commander cards shall figure in a very limited market (the same that ever happened with other products as FTV or Duel Decks or Planechase . . . : there are very few available and due taxes and import rates they had become expensive for most of the ordinary players).
I can imagine a great mess in the Brazilian market if a possible top card for Standard and/or Legacy shall appear in a non-booster product not-released in Brazil like NPH booster for example – specially a rare or mythic card. This concerns me.
That’s all! =)
Sure! As long as the product is easy to get and the cards aren't tournament-viable (so that they're reasonably cheap on the secondary market). I'm all for more multiplayer-focused cards.I'm a bit sad that you can't just pick up the Commander decks an
I'm excited because aside from Karador (cheaper with crits in the bin, lets you cast from the bin), Skullbriar hits all the right numbers:
The name is a winner. It comes out of the gate turn 2 running, when most people are setting up. It loves to die and yet discourages the typical destroy effects. It's in the colors of the Savra, Queen of the Golgari +Gravepact combo, which just easily allows you to clear its way to kill on General damage. (Most of my Generals tend to be enablers with the exception of Akroma, who's just a fatty finisher when the board is stabilized.) The slight rule-bender of its final ability will force players to stretch themselves to deal with it, thus allowing me more ease to deal with players in unconventional fashion (not just zombies, but proliferate, which includes enablers Skully likes).
I like The Mi---HOLY CRAP! TYRANNOSAURS!!---meoplasm, too, and largely for many of the same reasons, although it tends to the utility rather than the super-beater I envision Skully to be.
I'm excited because aside from Karador (cheaper with crits in the bin, lets you cast from the bin), Skullbriar hits all the right numbers:The name is a winner.It comes out of the gate turn 2 running, when most people are setting up.It loves to die an
In regards to the question in your article, "Are we doing the right thing? / Is this something we should do more of?"
As far as in making MTG Commander precons a quality product worthy of our $30, yes. A resounding yes. How much of your customer-base will take that MTG Commander product and play with it as is beyond day of purchase though?
As far as adding a new resource to Magic as a game, yes. I have little doubt that you sought to make the new cards playable (if not good), and as such these playable cards will create value as I'd imagine supply is more limited than a typical set release.
As far as helping Magic thrive as a game with new content accessible to all of its players? Ask me again in a few months when the StarCityGames prices settle, as I honestly have no clue.
In regards to the question in your article, "Are we doing the right thing? / Is this something we should do more of?" As far as in making MTG Commander precons a quality product worthy of our $30, yes. A resounding yes. How much of your customer-b
MaRo]Are we doing the right thing? I'll be honest in saying that I think wrote:
Are we doing the right thing? I'll be honest in saying that I think so, but I'm not 100%. The thing I do know, though, is that the key to keeping Magic healthy long term is the willingness of R&D to try things out. As I often like to say, the greatest risk to Magic is taking no risks. I'm very curious to hear the feedback to today's column, because I'd love to hear what all of you think about having new cards in a non-booster product. Is this something we should do more of? I'm very curious to your feedback.
Sure! As long as the product is easy to get and the cards aren't tournament-viable (so that they're reasonably cheap on the secondary market). I'm all for more multiplayer-focused cards.
I'm a bit sad that you can't just pick up the Commander decks and use them to play Archenemy. Join force, Death by Dragons and other political cards would be devastating for the archenemy.
I'm pretty sure tournament viability doesn't really matter that much because I don't think any of them will be legal in any tournaments until they're reprinted. The only problem is: how good will they be in Casual? Likely, pretty good, because otherwise they wouldn't get printed.
Great article overall, and I like the design discussion. However, the preview was very anticlimactic. No discussion of possible card combos, or idealized hypothetical game states wherein this card is suddenly awesome? Get players excited about the preview card itself, not just the set as a whole. How about this?
I've got out Warped Devotion and Equilibrium, and my empty-handed opponent controls an Akroma, Angel of Wrath. I cast The Mimeoplasm, targeting Akroma with Equilibrium. Akroma returns to its owner's hand, and thanks to Warped Devotion, gets promptly discarded. The Mimeoplasm then resolves, and copies Akroma for abilities and gets +1/+1 counters according to someone else's Mortivore. Note also that both of those cards are exiled, and can't be later reanimated by my opponents. Sure, quite a contrived example, but lots of fun!
This is a design column, not a play column. Mark never really talks a lot about how to play the thing. He just uses it to illustrate a point, or to show off something cool.
What links each wedge together? The WBG wedge is easy: graveyards. They bring creatures back from the graveyard to the hand, to the top of the library, or to play, or regenerate to stop them from going to the graveyard entirely. The WBR wedge is a little harder, but I'd say it's based on board sweepers and symmetrical effects. Day of Judgment , Inferno , Consume the Meek ... White likes to be "fair" and balance everything, and black and red both like to kill everything for different reasons. As for the other three wedges, though, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that ties them together. What weaknesses does each wedge have? What's the flavor of each like?
I've been thinking a lot about this as well. Beyond the black wedge, I also got the blue wedge, which is linked by cloning. Green clones tokens (Rhys the Redeemed, Dual Nature ), Red clones spells Reverberate , Fork , Blue clones both creatures and spells.
Sure! As long as the product is easy to get and the cards aren't tournament-viable (so that they're reasonably cheap on the secondary market). I'm all for more multiplayer-focused cards.I'm a bit sad that you can't just pick up the Commander decks an
Are we doing the right thing? I'll be honest in saying that I think so, but I'm not 100%. The thing I do know, though, is that the key to keeping Magic healthy long term is the willingness of R&D to try things out. As I often like to say, the greatest risk to Magic is taking no risks. I'm very curious to hear the feedback to today's column, because I'd love to hear what all of you think about having new cards in a non-booster product. Is this something we should do more of? I'm very curious to your feedback.
Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: As long as the product is generally available so that casual players with less means of obtaining product have as much of a chance to get in on the fun of the game itself as the players with more budgetary means, then yes, your product is good for the game as a whole. Another factor of this is that with the singleton nature of this product and dedication to making each deck fun and powerful (by including Sol Ring in each deck, for example), you've ensured that anyone can pick up a deck with their favorite color combinations and get the mythic-rare level cards in addition to all the necessary support cards and it's not just a grab for chase rares to resell on the secondary market. I fully hope that more tertiary products like this happen in the future.
Short answer: Yes.Longer answer: As long as the product is generally available so that casual players with less means of obtaining product have as much of a chance to get in on the fun of the game itself as the players with more budgetary means, then
I love any article that makes me run to Gatherer when it's done. Thanks, MaRo. :P
Death's Shadow looks wonderful here, and appropriately colored to boot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he and Fungal Behemoth would make an easy 26/26 creature (without having to load your deck with expensive unusable cards). I think I'll be poking around Gatherer for a while, thanks to this one...
I love any article that makes me run to Gatherer when it's done. Thanks, MaRo. :P[c]Death's Shadow[/c] looks wonderful here, and appropriately colored to boot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he and [c]Fungal Behemoth[/c] would make an easy 26/26 creatu
I like Mimeoplasm, as I like the other previewed generals. I like that WotC are making casual/fun/multiplayer products and I think it is right that these receive cards that are specifically designed for those envrionments and that are not tournament legal (well, apart from eternal formats). I think this is very, very good. I am excited and want to buy and play these pre-cons. And I am not the sort of person who buys pre-cons.
But I think MaRo phrased the question in an awkawrdly general manner: "Are we doing the right thing?"
With this Commander thing, yes, I think you are. But as far as including new cards in core sets goes, I think you are doing a horrible mistake. Core sets are really boring products frankly. I don't want to play limited with them, I don't want to open them. Including new cards in core sets forces me to choose to either: a) buying product that I really don't want to buy b) stop playing competitive tournament Magic
I chose b) Simple as that.
I worked much better when the purpose of core sets was to keep some cards from the past legal for standard and extended, without having to reprint those cards in the new expansions. Ok, so this is coming from someone who has a pretty extensive Magic collection, who has a copy (often a playset) of a majority of the cards printed in the history of Magic, who could in the past simply dig out the "new" inclusions of a new core sets from a dusty drawer. Otherwise, I hate core sets. They are utterly, utterly boring. Being forced to purchase them or the cards in them is a big deal for me - in fact, its a deal braker, culling my interest in Magic overall, which has cut my spending on Magic cards to about 5% of what it used to be.
Yes, I like.I like Mimeoplasm, as I like the other previewed generals. I like that WotC are making casual/fun/multiplayer products and I think it is right that these receive cards that are specifically designed for those envrionments and that are not
I like Mimeoplasm.. I really do. But having him stuck at 5 mana, plus needing two creatures already in the graveyard to clone sucks. (Does it allow only one? Because the wording seems to force you to do 2 in order to gain any effect)
I like Mimeoplasm.. I really do. But having him stuck at 5 mana, plus needing two creatures already in the graveyard to clone sucks. (Does it allow only one? Because the wording seems to force you to do 2 in order to gain any effect)--Support Modern
Yes, Death's Shadow, would be great but combine him with a Cold-eyed Selke and that seems fun. I really like the fact we are getting new generals but how about giving them as FNM/WPN promos. That would draw in more casual crowd that wouldn't normaly play in tourniments. I really want the new cards but don't see myself actually buying the product.
Yes, Death's Shadow, would be great but combine him with a Cold-eyed Selke and that seems fun. I really like the fact we are getting new generals but how about giving them as FNM/WPN promos. That would draw in more casual crowd that wouldn't normaly
As for all the wedge color stuff, I'm hoping that we get a theme "wedge week" or something...What links each wedge together?.
I'd love to see a wedge week, too. As far as what links each wedge together, here's what I can come up with off the top of my head...
WBR: Lightning Helix is pretty similar to Drain Life . They also have the White Knight /Black Knight /Blood Knight cycle. URG: Blue has "unblockable," red has "can't be blocked," and green has "may assign combat damage as though it weren't blocked." BGW: Graveyard recursion. RWB: White likes redirecting damage, red likes redirecting spells, and blue likes "redirecting" creatures. Thanks to a few red cards in Planar Chaos, they all have bounce effects as well. GBU: P/T shifting? Green has +X/+X effects and black has -X/-X effects.
I'm not entirely satisfied with this list because some of the shared abilities are a bit of a stretch, and some of them aren't symmetrically distributed throughout the wedge. For example, green and black both oppose each other when it comes to pump and negative pump effects, which also fall into blue's color pie--but shouldn't the focus either be on blue/black as the allied pair or on green as the enemy color?
For a deeper analysis, we can turn to the Making Magic articles for the Ravnica theme weeks. Rosewater wrote that "the key to understanding an enemy color pair is to examine what conflict defines them." In the case of a wedge, there's a conflict between a color and the allied pair it opposes.
White vs Black/Red Blue vs Red/Green Black vs Green/White Red vs White/Blue Green vs Blue/Black
In the Boros article, Rosewater goes out of his way to make the point that conflicts like these are usually resolved by letting one side pick the goal and the other side pick the means. The Boros are a group that uses chaotic means to enforce justice, but they could just as easily have been a group trying to create anarchy using tight and structured means. So, if one were to design allied pair cards that could be used to achieve the enemy color's goals...
White's goal is peace, and Black/Red is good at creature kill. I'd suggest cards that exile creatures or wipe out large amounts of creatures at a time, but white can already do that on its own.
Blue's goal is knowledge, and Red/Green is good at creature combat. Creatures that get smarter as they attack? Drawing cards upon dealing combat damage is already a UG ability, and drawing cards upon dealing burn damage was used for a few Izzet cards. It feels a bit like "Chinese menu" design to me, though.
Black's goal is power, and Green/White is good at making creature tokens. This makes me think of cards like Bitterblossom and Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder , but these are mono-black cards, so obviously black can do this on its own already.
Red's goal is chaos, and White/Blue is good at counterspells. Right off the bat, that sounds incredibly un-fun. Maybe a fun RWB mechanic might be a "red" version of Forecast that let you cast spells from your opponent's hand?
Green's goal is growth, and Blue/Black is good at milling. For some reason, I can't think of anything besides using the milling to pump up Lhurgoyfs.
Well, that was a fun exercise, but I think maybe my "off the top of my head" answers were better...
I'd love to see a wedge week, too. As far as what links each wedge together, here's what I can come up with off the top of my head...WBR: [c]Lightning Helix[/c] is pretty similar to [c]Drain Life[/c]. They also have the [c]White Knight[/c]/[c]Black
It can also help to look at what the 2 left out colors represent, that would define what the wedge lacks.
GUB: growth through decay Green figured the best way to grow really large is just to leech everything else. Fungal Shambler , Leeching Bite /Steal Strength , Draining Whelk . RW are the colors of compassion, love, so this shows GUBs utter disregard to others when using them for personal growth
WBR: peace through war White figured the best way to enforce its laws over the entire world and create a stable society is to slaughter everyone who is not righteous. Fervent Charge shows it's all about attacking, Manacles of Decay shows it goes from bad to worse, no mercy. UG are the colors of creation. G calls it life, U calls it science, G calls it growth, U calls it progress. This shows WBR utterly destructive tendency. Everything will burn. Barren Glory .
URG: grasping all through letting all go Blue figured the best way to know it all is through some kind of zen. A primal, instinctive side, letting go of the self, of the consciousness. In this enlightened state, blue knows all. This might be a little weird on cards. Guided Passage is a glimpse into an unimaginable weird world. Perhaps things like Oracle of Mul Daya /Future Sight are an embodiment of the Now. A lot of instants and other tricks? Morph? WB are the colors of morality, of judgement, of right and wrong. This shows URG is very introspective, accepting things as they are, not caring much about its opponents and more busy with itself.
BWG: dominance through community Black figured the best way to be the most powerful is to have everyone accepting that. That's why it started a religion of reincarnation, where your role in life is determined by your previous lifes. Now all it has to is be ambitious and reincarnate in incrementally better roles. This cycle of life and death is shown on Teneb, the Harvester and Overgrown Estate . UR are the colors of change, so this shows BWG is very stale. It's an endless loop of life and death and you can't change your fate because your last life determined it.
RWU: freedom through unification Red figured the best way to have ultimate freedom is to be a Planeswalker, and the only way to get a spark if you don't have one is to work together and engineer it. It would be Izzet with a spiritual aspect, where everyone would be religiously devoted to the common cause. Hardest one to translate to cards. Storm? Spellfall (whenever you cast an instant or sorcery, blah), Wild Research ? BG are the colors of nature, of the cycle of life and death, so this shows why RWU disregards the natural world and is focused only on this higher one.
It can also help to look at what the 2 left out colors represent, that would define what the wedge lacks.GUB: growth through decayGreen figured the best way to grow really large is just to leech everything else. [c]Fungal Shambler[/c], [c]Leeching Bi
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:
overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. Imperial Mask pushes the boundaries, but I can take any deck and play a multiplayer game with it. Command Tower only makes any sense in a specifically constructed deck for a variant format. I'd like to keep such things to Schemes and Planes, not on actual cards.
Not liking it one bit.
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. [c]I
One way they could do it that would have slightly different flavour.
Imprint both cards.
U: this becomes a copy of a card imprinted to it except it keeps this ability.
Not quite meld, but gets you access to all activated, triggered, and static abilities of both cards.
One way they could do it that would have slightly different flavour.Imprint both cards.U: this becomes a copy of a card imprinted to it except it keeps this ability.Not quite meld, but gets you access to all activated, triggered, and static abilities
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:
overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. Imperial Mask pushes the boundaries, but I can take any deck and play a multiplayer game with it. Command Tower only makes any sense in a specifically constructed deck for a variant format. I'd like to keep such things to Schemes and Planes, not on actual cards.
Not liking it one bit.
Totally agree with this, that card just looks silly.
Totally agree with this, that card just looks silly.
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:
overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. Imperial Mask pushes the boundaries, but I can take any deck and play a multiplayer game with it. Command Tower only makes any sense in a specifically constructed deck for a variant format. I'd like to keep such things to Schemes and Planes, not on actual cards.
Not liking it one bit.
Totally agree with this, that card just looks silly.
Not only does it look silly, being the only card (so far, but I really hope it's the only one) that can only work in commander, it also is a forced staple in the format.
Totally agree with this, that card just looks silly.[/quote]Not only does it look silly, being the only card (so far, but I really hope it's the only one) that can only work in commander, it also is a forced staple in the format.
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:
overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. Imperial Mask pushes the boundaries, but I can take any deck and play a multiplayer game with it. Command Tower only makes any sense in a specifically constructed deck for a variant format. I'd like to keep such things to Schemes and Planes, not on actual cards.
Not liking it one bit.
Totally agree with this, that card just looks silly.
Not only does it look silly, being the only card (so far, but I really hope it's the only one) that can only work in commander, it also is a forced staple in the format.
Yeah, the card is nuts in any multi-color Commander deck. I think wedge versions of the Shards of Alara Savage Lands cycle would have been cooler, fairer, reprintable, and actually interesting. Now it's just mostly a complicated version of Reflecting Pool .
Totally agree with this, that card just looks silly.[/quote]Not only does it look silly, being the only card (so far, but I really hope it's the only one) that can only work in commander, it also is a forced staple in the format.[/quote]Yeah, the car
"" With this Commander thing, yes, I think you are. But as far as including new cards in core sets goes, I think you are doing a horrible mistake. Core sets are really boring products frankly. I don't want to play limited with them, I don't want to open them. Including new cards in core sets forces me to choose to either: a) buying product that I really don't want to buy b) stop playing competitive tournament Magic
I chose b) Simple as that.
I worked much better when the purpose of core sets was to keep some cards from the past legal for standard and extended, without having to reprint those cards in the new expansions. Ok, so this is coming from someone who has a pretty extensive Magic collection, who has a copy (often a playset) of a majority of the cards printed in the history of Magic, who could in the past simply dig out the "new" inclusions of a new core sets from a dusty drawer. Otherwise, I hate core sets. They are utterly, utterly boring. Being forced to purchase them or the cards in them is a big deal for me - in fact, its a deal braker, culling my interest in Magic overall, which has cut my spending on Magic cards to about 5% of what it used to be. ""
But the reason for the move in the core was to make less "filler". That meant that Core was meaningless... And why waste time with, art, design, marketing, sales when half the community isn't going to buy it? M10 & M11 are some of the best selling core sets in a very long time... Even with new cards in core or other sets, they are still printing fewer new cards by about 25% making the game more affordable. People that have "everything" can go play vintage. (and if you can't hack vintage, you're just posing)
I like the idea of more non-random items. The GAME is collectible... That doesn't mean they can't do releases of important stuff.. Not everything needs to be in boosters. Just because every new card is not a vintage bomb, doesn't really matter to themajority of people that buy cards every week at FNM or go to releases.
""With this Commander thing, yes, I think you are. But as far as including new cards in core sets goes, I think you are doing a horrible mistake. Core sets are really boring products frankly. I don't want to play limited with them, I don't want to op
All you really need is one of those lands. You can just keep a slot empty in your EDH decks and move the land to whichever deck you use at the time.
I think it is a good idea to develop a land usable in a specific format. Also, since it only works with EDH they can make it as good for that format as they want without fear of what it will do for Vintage or Legacy.
All you really need is one of those lands. You can just keep a slot empty in your EDH decks and move the land to whichever deck you use at the time.I think it is a good idea to develop a land usable in a specific format. Also, since it only works w
"" With this Commander thing, yes, I think you are. But as far as including new cards in core sets goes, I think you are doing a horrible mistake. Core sets are really boring products frankly. I don't want to play limited with them, I don't want to open them. Including new cards in core sets forces me to choose to either: a) buying product that I really don't want to buy b) stop playing competitive tournament Magic I chose b) Simple as that. I worked much better when the purpose of core sets was to keep some cards from the past legal for standard and extended, without having to reprint those cards in the new expansions. Ok, so this is coming from someone who has a pretty extensive Magic collection, who has a copy (often a playset) of a majority of the cards printed in the history of Magic, who could in the past simply dig out the "new" inclusions of a new core sets from a dusty drawer. Otherwise, I hate core sets. They are utterly, utterly boring. Being forced to purchase them or the cards in them is a big deal for me - in fact, its a deal braker, culling my interest in Magic overall, which has cut my spending on Magic cards to about 5% of what it used to be. "" But the reason for the move in the core was to make less "filler". That meant that Core was meaningless... And why waste time with, art, design, marketing, sales when half the community isn't going to buy it? M10 & M11 are some of the best selling core sets in a very long time... Even with new cards in core or other sets, they are still printing fewer new cards by about 25% making the game more affordable. People that have "everything" can go play vintage. (and if you can't hack vintage, you're just posing) I like the idea of more non-random items. The GAME is collectible... That doesn't mean they can't do releases of important stuff.. Not everything needs to be in boosters. Just because every new card is not a vintage bomb, doesn't really matter to themajority of people that buy cards every week at FNM or go to releases.
I like the new Core Sets but wish the percentage of new cards was slightly lower. I personally kind of miss the whole "cool reprints" idea which I really liked about the earlier core sets. There are very few really cool reprints in the newer sets.
All you really need is one of those lands. You can just keep a slot empty in your EDH decks and move the land to whichever deck you use at the time.
I think it is a good idea to develop a land usable in a specific format. Also, since it only works with EDH they can make it as good for that format as they want without fear of what it will do for Vintage or Legacy.
A lot of people don't take apart their decks willy-nilly. A lot of people take multiple decks to a night of Magic and don't want to keep moving it around every game. A lot of people lend decks to others so that they have multiple decks in use at the same time.
I don't want to move my dual lands around decks either. It's a difficult thing to do.
I like the new Core Sets but wish the percentage of new cards was slightly lower. I personally kind of miss the whole "cool reprints" idea which I really liked about the earlier core sets. There are very few really cool reprints in the newer sets.A l
It can also help to look at what the 2 left out colors represent, that would define what the wedge lacks.
Wow, this is amazing! Your flavor justifications are spot on, especially for how the wedge would be affected by the two absent colors. I think I went wrong by trying to represent the wedge's allied colors mechanically instead of flavorfully like you did.
GUB: growth through decay This is a good flavor justification for focusing on pump and drain effects, but as I mentioned earlier, I don't like how it pulls the focus towards Golgari effects and away from blue.
Green likes creature combat; blue and black are the colors of deception. Maybe this should just be the ninjutsu shard? =D Blue and black are the colors that rely the most on evasion, so it makes sense that GUB would incorporate that into its fighting style. Or maybe green would have a version of ninjutsu that allows it to return blocked attackers to its hand?
WBR: peace through war I think I'm a much newer player than you, so my command of Magic history isn't as strong--I wouldn't have thought to look to Apocalypse for inspiration. What I don't like about this, though, is that it doesn't really seem any different from just plain WR. (I mean, compare Fervent Charge to Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran .) I guess the black emphasizes their cruelty or the scope of their domination?
I still think the wedges should be considered as an allied pair with a shared enemy. Otherwise, what reason do you have for thinking "black Boros" over "red Orzhov?" Looking at WBR as "white Rakdos," I think the overlap might be in sacrifice effects. White sacrifices for the sake of the community, while Rakdos seems to enjoy self-destruction just for its own sake. Perhaps a WBR shard might be a world where people feel compelled to sacrifice their lives, even when that sacrifice is meaningless? This idea reminds me of that short story, "The Lottery."
URG: grasping all through letting all go This is perfect! It reminds me of something David Sirlin mentions a lot: that it's impossible to access many of our own skills--particularly ones we've mastered--with conscious thought.
I think playing cards from the top of the library is a good fit for this wedge. As for "instants and a lot of other tricks," how about super haste, ala Rocket-Powered Turbo Slug? It's like a combination of combat and time manipulation that plays into red's Final Fortune ability.
BWG: dominance through community When I was brainstorming, I'd considered the phrase "death through community," which reminded me of a certain episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Lwaxana Troi falls in love with a scientist from a planet whose inhabitants commit ritual suicide upon reaching the age of sixty. It's called "the resolution" and its purpose is to ensure that the elderly don't become a burden on the young. The practictioners of this tradition view it as a celebration of life; a dignified end that takes the uncertainty out of death and allows a person to be buried with his or her family.
Of course, this idea would be difficult to express on individual cards, but I suppose it could make good Creative fodder. RWU: freedom through unification It seemed odd to me that any one color would get to be "the planeswalker color," but after I thought about it, red does seem to have the most planeswalker cards. (Gatherer confirms this--red has the most right now at 7, while green has the fewest at 3.) Again, I think it'd be more symmetrical to represent the shard as "red Azorius" instead of "blue Boros" or "white Izzet," but the flavor you've come up with is just too juicy to pass up. And if I'm not mistaken, the Izzet were the only guild that had a planeswalker as their leader, right?
As far as the individual mechanics you propose, white seems to currently have only one Storm card, Izzet already had a "spellfall" theme without needing white, and red tutoring effects like Wild Research seem off-color to me. I agree that for some reason this wedge seems to be difficult to design for. According to my Gatherer search, there are only two cards in this wedge so far. I can't figure out what the concept behind Numot, the Devastator is, and the other one is Chinese Menu Design Angel .
WU likes blink effects, and those work well with Pandemonium , right? Maybe RWU should emphasize enters-the-battlefield and leaves-the-battlefield effects, like in the Endless March preconstructed deck.
Wow, this is amazing! Your flavor justifications are spot on, especially for how the wedge would be affected by the two absent colors. I think I went wrong by trying to represent the wedge's allied colors mechanically instead of flavorfully like yo
I still think the wedges should be considered as an allied pair with a shared enemy. Otherwise, what reason do you have for thinking "black Boros" over "red Orzhov?"
That's true, I made some mistakes there. But the WBR Commander deck seems to be focused in the same direction, attacking.
It seemed odd to me that any one color would get to be "the planeswalker color," but after I thought about it, red does seem to have the most planeswalker cards. (Gatherer confirms this--red has the most right now at 7, while green has the fewest at 3.) Again, I think it'd be more symmetrical to represent the shard as "red Azorius" instead of "blue Boros" or "white Izzet," but the flavor you've come up with is just too juicy to pass up.
Yeah it might be too specific rather than a general ideology as the others. This one was the hardest for me both for flavor and mechanics.
WU likes blink effects, and those work well with Pandemonium , right? Maybe RWU should emphasize enters-the-battlefield and leaves-the-battlefield effects, like in the Endless March preconstructed deck.
Yes! You're absolutely right, I completely forgot about blinking.
That sounds pretty interesting =)That's true, I made some mistakes there. But the WBR Commander deck seems to be focused in the same direction, attacking. Yeah it might be too specific rather than a general ideology as the others. This one was the ha
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:
overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. Imperial Mask pushes the boundaries, but I can take any deck and play a multiplayer game with it. Command Tower only makes any sense in a specifically constructed deck for a variant format. I'd like to keep such things to Schemes and Planes, not on actual cards.
Not liking it one bit.
What the hell Wizards? Seriously, what the hell? I love non-basic lands. I'd run a deck of 60 of them if I could (61 if I'd been drinking), but this is beyond parasitic, this is fan-wankery at it's worst.
All the other preview cards may have been designed for Commander play, but still could have been shoe-horned into other formats. Simply continuing the tri-land cycle with the wedge colors would have been much easier and much more flexible outside of Commander.
Is there no way it could have had two abilities, one for Commander and one for everything else? (Even tacking City of Brass onto it as it's second ability would have been good. )
Jiminy Christmas people, think before you leap! *
*Forgive me, I'm reading the Man-Kzin wars for the first time.
Edit to add: In case my post wasn't clear on the subject, I am no longer okay with printing new cards like this outside of booster product. Not if it's going to lead to insular, parastic designs like this.
What the hell Wizards? Seriously, what the hell? I love non-basic lands. I'd run a deck of 60 of them if I could (61 if I'd been drinking), but this is beyond parasitic, this is fan-wankery at it's worst. All the other preview cards may have been des
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:
overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. Imperial Mask pushes the boundaries, but I can take any deck and play a multiplayer game with it. Command Tower only makes any sense in a specifically constructed deck for a variant format. I'd like to keep such things to Schemes and Planes, not on actual cards.
Not liking it one bit.
What the hell Wizards? Seriously, what the hell? I love non-basic lands. I'd run a deck of 60 of them if I could (61 if I'd been drinking), but this is beyond parasitic, this is fan-wankery at it's worst.
All the other preview cards may have been designed for Commander play, but still could have been shoe-horned into other formats. Simply continuing the tri-land cycle with the wedge colors would have been much easier and much more flexible outside of Commander.
Is there no way it could have had two abilities, one for Commander and one for everything else? (Even tacking City of Brass onto it as it's second ability would have been good. )
Jiminy Christmas people, think before you leap! *
*Forgive me, I'm reading the Man-Kzin wars for the first time.
Edit to add: In case my post wasn't clear on the subject, I am no longer okay with printing new cards like this outside of booster product. Not if it's going to lead to insular, parastic designs like this.
First let me say that I respect your opinions and insights, Milo. You always bring something worthy to the discussion and I enjoy reading your posts. (pause while we wait for the other shoe to drop)
That being said... Good gosh, it's like the new cards were, I don't know, designed specifically for commander or something! /snark
Seriously though. This product is referred to as Commander. For over six months, wizards of the coast has made it abundantly and explicitly clear that there will be new cards printed, and those cards would be designed for the commander format, not regular play. And now when presented with evidence of this fact, people are suddenly up in arms about it? Idongeddit.
What the hell Wizards? Seriously, what the hell? I love non-basic lands. I'd run a deck of 60 of them if I could (61 if I'd been drinking), but this is beyond parasitic, this is fan-wankery at it's worst. All the other preview cards may have been des
willpell knows the rules pretty well (as do I). He was correct to avoid static abilities, because they could overlap in very brain-bending ways. But the way he did it would have worked from a rules perspective. Admittedly it would be very confusing to get triggered abilities but not static abilities.
I was on the fence about whether to include triggers, and the Bushido example makes me lean toward "no" now that I think about it. Someone suggesting including keywords, but that's a no-go since the rules as currently configured don't distinguish between "real" keywords like Flying and ones such as Echo which shouldn't be copyable. One of the changes I've been planning for my "ultimate edition" is to categorize keywords to avoid this issue; in the absence of a fully developed version of that rule, I would rather just skip the keywords.
I was on the fence about whether to include triggers, and the Bushido example makes me lean toward "no" now that I think about it. Someone suggesting including keywords, but that's a no-go since the rules as currently configured don't distinguish be
regarding the question about the move to create new cards for the product:
overall I think it's a great move, but Command Tower that has just been spoiled on mtgcommander.net crosses the line for me. That card feels fake, I don't like it one bit. Imperial Mask pushes the boundaries, but I can take any deck and play a multiplayer game with it. Command Tower only makes any sense in a specifically constructed deck for a variant format. I'd like to keep such things to Schemes and Planes, not on actual cards.
Not liking it one bit.
What the hell Wizards? Seriously, what the hell? I love non-basic lands. I'd run a deck of 60 of them if I could (61 if I'd been drinking), but this is beyond parasitic, this is fan-wankery at it's worst.
All the other preview cards may have been designed for Commander play, but still could have been shoe-horned into other formats. Simply continuing the tri-land cycle with the wedge colors would have been much easier and much more flexible outside of Commander.
Is there no way it could have had two abilities, one for Commander and one for everything else? (Even tacking City of Brass onto it as it's second ability would have been good. )
Jiminy Christmas people, think before you leap! *
*Forgive me, I'm reading the Man-Kzin wars for the first time.
Edit to add: In case my post wasn't clear on the subject, I am no longer okay with printing new cards like this outside of booster product. Not if it's going to lead to insular, parastic designs like this.
First let me say that I respect your opinions and insights, Milo. You always bring something worthy to the discussion and I enjoy reading your posts. (pause while we wait for the other shoe to drop)
That being said... Good gosh, it's like the new cards were, I don't know, designed specifically for commander or something! /snark
Seriously though. This product is referred to as Commander. For over six months, wizards of the coast has made it abundantly and explicitly clear that there will be new cards printed, and those cards would be designed for the commander format, not regular play. And now when presented with evidence of this fact, people are suddenly up in arms about it? Idongeddit.
First of all, thank you for the comment about my other posts, sometimes it feels like I'm spitting into the wind around here.
But I still stand by my stance.
The difference is that all the other cards I've seen revealed may be designed for Commander, but could still be used in every other format. Maybe not very well and maybe you'll be laughed at for even playing it, but it would work within the rules of the game. This new land is essentially a null card outside of Commander, only usable with cards that feature land shenanigans already. This could have easily had a second ability (like City of Brass, as I pointed out above, or even Terramorphic expanse). Or it could have been worded like "add one color that shares a color with a legendary creature you control, or they could have reprinted cards like Pillar of the Paruns . There's just so many different ways this could have been done, without making it so insular to this one particular format.
What the hell Wizards? Seriously, what the hell? I love non-basic lands. I'd run a deck of 60 of them if I could (61 if I'd been drinking), but this is beyond parasitic, this is fan-wankery at it's worst. All the other preview cards may have been des
All you really need is one of those lands. You can just keep a slot empty in your EDH decks and move the land to whichever deck you use at the time.
I think it is a good idea to develop a land usable in a specific format. Also, since it only works with EDH they can make it as good for that format as they want without fear of what it will do for Vintage or Legacy.
A lot of people don't take apart their decks willy-nilly. A lot of people take multiple decks to a night of Magic and don't want to keep moving it around every game. A lot of people lend decks to others so that they have multiple decks in use at the same time.
I don't want to move my dual lands around decks either. It's a difficult thing to do.
what is "willy nilly" about needing to share cards between decks if you don't have enough copies? I only have one copy of some strong cards (such as Demonic Tutor, Lightning Greaves, Sol Ring, etc...) and they are shared between three or four different decks. I would rather have the decks I build contain strong cards that I only have a few copies of than try to build a deck without the strong cards simply because I don't have enough copies of them.
In fact, the only way I am able to build an EDH deck is to cannibalize several decks for strong cards for my EDH deck. If I didn't my EDH decks would be much worse, or I would have to weaken/ dismantle my regular decks that I needed to take cards from.
A lot of people don't take apart their decks willy-nilly. A lot of people take multiple decks to a night of Magic and don't want to keep moving it around every game. A lot of people lend decks to others so that they have multiple decks in use at the
All you really need is one of those lands. You can just keep a slot empty in your EDH decks and move the land to whichever deck you use at the time.
I think it is a good idea to develop a land usable in a specific format. Also, since it only works with EDH they can make it as good for that format as they want without fear of what it will do for Vintage or Legacy.
A lot of people don't take apart their decks willy-nilly. A lot of people take multiple decks to a night of Magic and don't want to keep moving it around every game. A lot of people lend decks to others so that they have multiple decks in use at the same time.
I don't want to move my dual lands around decks either. It's a difficult thing to do.
what is "willy nilly" about needing to share cards between decks if you don't have enough copies? I only have one copy of some strong cards (such as Demonic Tutor, Lightning Greaves, Sol Ring, etc...) and they are shared between three or four different decks. I would rather have the decks I build contain strong cards that I only have a few copies of than try to build a deck without the strong cards simply because I don't have enough copies of them.
In fact, the only way I am able to build an EDH deck is to cannibalize several decks for strong cards for my EDH deck. If I didn't my EDH decks would be much worse, or I would have to weaken/ dismantle my regular decks that I needed to take cards from.
It's a logistical nightmare, especially when you like to play with a variety of decks in one session.
Furthermore, the land's just insane. The only reason they're printing it is because it's not going to matter. For me, personally, it's just going to sit in my binder sad and alone because I don't even play Commander. I just like the decks. I'm really okay with the rest of the stuff. Most of the stuff like Death by Dragons just reads poorly when you play in it in a standard game, and then there's the unplayables like most of the Join Forces cards, but a useless card is, well, kind of sad.
A lot of people don't take apart their decks willy-nilly. A lot of people take multiple decks to a night of Magic and don't want to keep moving it around every game. A lot of people lend decks to others so that they have multiple decks in use at the
It is only useless if you don't play EDH. As you have just said, you don't play EDH so you have no use for the land. That is completely understandable.
I, on the other hand, do play EDH and will find the land to be VERY useful. I don't want to speak for everyone that plays EDH but I can bet that they will want the land as well.
It is only useless if you don't play EDH. As you have just said, you don't play EDH so you have no use for the land. That is completely understandable.I, on the other hand, do play EDH and will find the land to be VERY useful. I don't want to spea
The fact that it's a blank card outside of EDH is bad, but IMO that isn't the worst thing about this card.
The worst thing about the tower is that it's a brainless must have for any multicolored commander deck, anybody who has a hint of "spike" needs this card as it's stricly better than a basic land, something that wizards has said on multiple occasions that they will not do again.
The fact that it's a blank card outside of EDH is bad, but IMO that isn't the worst thing about this card.The worst thing about the tower is that it's a brainless must have for any multicolored commander deck, anybody who has a hint of "spike" needs
Seriously though. This product is referred to as Commander. For over six months, wizards of the coast has made it abundantly and explicitly clear that there will be new cards printed, and those cards would be designed for the commander format, not regular play. And now when presented with evidence of this fact, people are suddenly up in arms about it? Idongeddit.
Alara cards were designed for multicolor decks, Rise of the Eldrazi cards were designed for Battlecruiser Magic. That doesn't mean I can't combine them with other cards in meaningful ways. You know what I can't combine? Splice onto Arcane cards. Yeah, those went over really well.
Command Tower is like the worst version of Splice onto Arcane ever.
Also, what they said was that these cards would be eternal-legal, so we assumed they would at least be normal magic compatible =)
what is "willy nilly" about needing to share cards between decks if you don't have enough copies?
Way too much busywork, as other have said. I like to play with different decks on a night, not to mention loaning decks to others.
Alara cards were designed for multicolor decks, Rise of the Eldrazi cards were designed for Battlecruiser Magic. That doesn't mean I can't combine them with other cards in meaningful ways. You know what I can't combine? Splice onto Arcane cards. Yeah
Alara cards were designed for multicolor decks, Rise of the Eldrazi cards were designed for Battlecruiser Magic. That doesn't mean I can't combine them with other cards in meaningful ways. You know what I can't combine? Splice onto Arcane cards. Yeah, those went over really well.
Command Tower is like the worse version of Splice onto Arcane ever.
It's even worse than that, though. Almost all of the splice cards at least do something in a deck that isn't built around splice. The only one that doesn't is Evermind , and even that is potentially useful in any format in which it is legal - a splice deck isn't likely to be competitive in Vintage, but at least you can build one.
There are also cards that have text that is meaningless outside of particular formats (e. g., Imperial Mask and Blood Tyrant ), but they still aren't effectively blank in other formats.
It's even worse than that, though. Almost all of the splice cards at least do something in a deck that isn't built around splice. The only one that doesn't is [card]Evermind[/card], and even that is potentially useful in any format in which it is l
i'm excited to get my hands on the rwu deck, also as an avid legacy player i'm somewhat pleased with the power level of reprinted cards in the different vs and premium decks, it seems to be helping with the issue of card availabilty for an ultra popular eternal format, i'm hoping that these commander decks will contain some legacy staples, not only will it help that format continue to thrive but should help move the commander decks off of the shelves, just my 2 cents.
i'm excited to get my hands on the rwu deck, also as an avid legacy player i'm somewhat pleased with the power level of reprinted cards in the different vs and premium decks, it seems to be helping with the issue of card availabilty for an ultra popu
The fact that it's a blank card outside of EDH is bad, but IMO that isn't the worst thing about this card.
The worst thing about the tower is that it's a brainless must have for any multicolored commander deck, anybody who has a hint of "spike" needs this card as it's stricly better than a basic land, something that wizards has said on multiple occasions that they will not do again.
It helps to know the definitions of words before you use them.
First of all, thank you for the comment about my other posts, sometimes it feels like I'm spitting into the wind around here.
But I still stand by my stance.
The difference is that all the other cards I've seen revealed may be designed for Commander, but could still be used in every other format. Maybe not very well and maybe you'll be laughed at for even playing it, but it would work within the rules of the game. This new land is essentially a null card outside of Commander, only usable with cards that feature land shenanigans already. This could have easily had a second ability (like City of Brass, as I pointed out above, or even Terramorphic expanse). Or it could have been worded like "add one color that shares a color with a legendary creature you control, or they could have reprinted cards like Pillar of the Paruns . There's just so many different ways this could have been done, without making it so insular to this one particular format.
Seriously though. This product is referred to as Commander. For over six months, wizards of the coast has made it abundantly and explicitly clear that there will be new cards printed, and those cards would be designed for the commander format, not regular play. And now when presented with evidence of this fact, people are suddenly up in arms about it? Idongeddit.
Alara cards were designed for multicolor decks, Rise of the Eldrazi cards were designed for Battlecruiser Magic. That doesn't mean I can't combine them with other cards in meaningful ways. You know what I can't combine? Splice onto Arcane cards. Yeah, those went over really well.
Command Tower is like the worse version of Splice onto Arcane ever.
Also, what they said was that these cards would be eternal-legal, so we assumed they would at least be normal magic compatible =)
Fair enough, I suppose. It doesn't really bother me though. Especially when you consider that even if the card worked so that it added to your mana pool if you don't have a commander, no one would play it. It would have functionality, yet still be inferior to any other land for any other role you could possibly need a land to fill in a legacy or casual deck.
It helps to know the definitions of words before you use them. Alara cards were designed for multicolor decks, Rise of the Eldrazi cards were designed for Battlecruiser Magic. That doesn't mean I can't combine them with other cards in meaningful way
Fair enough, I suppose. It doesn't really bother me though. Especially when you consider that even if the card worked so that it added to your mana pool if you don't have a commander, no one would play it. It would have functionality, yet still be inferior to any other land for any other role you could possibly need a land to fill in a legacy or casual deck.
This is wisdom. A card that does nothing useful, and a card that does nothing at all are essentially the same thing when competing for deck slots.
Command Tower outside of EDH is no different than Eager Cadet outside of Limited.
This is wisdom.A card that does nothing useful, and a card that does nothing at all are essentially the same thing when competing for deck slots.Command Tower outside of EDH is no different than Eager Cadet outside of Limited.
I don't know why everyone is complaining because I believe, when they first announced the Commander decks, said that they would be building them with the new cards specifically so they could be played in the Commander format and no where else. These cards don't care if they are good or bad outside of Commander, let alone if they even work or follow the rules of formats such as Standard or Legacy.
I don't know why everyone is complaining because I believe, when they first announced the Commander decks, said that they would be building them with the new cards specifically so they could be played in the Commander format and no where else. These
There is a major important feature about Command Tower that many commenters are ignoring, or are unaware of, and the latest forays into the magical world of manafixing seems to have inured them to this subject:
The land in question enters play untapped, taps for any color, and is "common" (commonality in a precon-only "set" is beyond artificial and meaningless, but has that stigma nonetheless), and thus likely to be present in copious amounts in all five Command decks. It will therefore be ubiquitous. So what type of drawback should it have had?
This is not to say that many of the other cards are tooled for EDH/Commander, even though they are almost virtually universally useful in other formats (all Join forces cards can be used in 2HG, 3HG, multiplayer like Star or Grand Melee, Emperor, etc.), but those cards are tooled for environments where multiplayer becomes obviously keen, and how one of your opponent's can help you kick the butt of another. In this card, it's you only. The drawback then should be a "Commander Land," but how do you word that so it only taps for mana that your General/Commander is, without restricting it to EDH/Commander? I'm not sure such a model actually exists and/or is useful, and thus this card's drawback stands.
I think it is effective and necessary design restricting its play, when it has so many upsides in the deck it's being used for. Does it limit its functionality from the get go, in being unusable elsewhere? Sure, and maybe WotC could have done something to stop this, like NOT PRINTING IT, but this leads to an additional problem:
This land is not limited to the set it's in; it's designed to work as an enabler in the entire format, and thus can equally pay for Horde of Notions and Reveka, Wizard Savant , it can pay for their activations, triggers (the Invasion/Planar Chaos dragons), and other cards, things that lands like Pillar of the Paruns cannot do, or lands like Exotic Orchard requiring you to be lucky in having an opponent enable.
There is a major important feature about [c]Command Tower[/c] that many commenters are ignoring, or are unaware of, and the latest forays into the magical world of manafixing seems to have inured them to this subject:The land in question enters play
Unglued was full of cards that couldn't be used in any other format. One card in a set is really really no big deal.
I won't ever have enough Towers to go in ALL 20+ of my EDH decks. I don't care. I play with what I have. If I never get a single Tower, I will live and continue to enjoy the format.
On the flipside, I will use at least one copy of every single new card in these sets SOMEWHERE. Between the Big Box and EDH, I will enjoy this product more than the average bear.
Unglued was full of cards that couldn't be used in any other format. One card in a set is really really no big deal. I won't ever have enough Towers to go in ALL 20+ of my EDH decks. I don't care. I play with what I have. If I never get a single Towe
I don't know why everyone is complaining because I believe, when they first announced the Commander decks, said that they would be building them with the new cards specifically so they could be played in the Commander format and no where else.
Not true at all, here's the original announcement:
Magic: The Gathering Commander will contain brand-new cards! We've been looking for outlets to create new multiplayer-friendly card designs for years, and this was the perfect place. There are 51 unique new cards spread across the five decks (some cards appear in multiple decks). These are real, black-bordered Magic cards that will be legal in Eternal formats (Vintage and Legacy) as well as casual games the world over. These cards are meant to appeal to many different kinds of Commander and multiplayer players: power gamers, flavor fanatics, and those who approach the game much more politically.
Fair enough, I suppose. It doesn't really bother me though. Especially when you consider that even if the card worked so that it added to your mana pool if you don't have a commander, no one would play it. It would have functionality, yet still be inferior to any other land for any other role you could possibly need a land to fill in a legacy or casual deck.
This is wisdom. A card that does nothing useful, and a card that does nothing at all are essentially the same thing when competing for deck slots.
Command Tower outside of EDH is no different than Eager Cadet outside of Limited.
Except in practice the Tower gives more problems. I like to be able to shuffle up my EDH deck for a normal casual game. Variant formats should always have the normal game as a base. I can't play pauper with my legacy deck, I can't play EDH with my modern deck. But I should be able to take my pauper, legacy or EDH deck and play a normal game with it.
If you for some reason choose to run Eager Cadet , it does what it does in every game of Magic.
Unglued was full of cards that couldn't be used in any other format. One card in a set is really really no big deal.
Un cards are like Schemes and Planes. They're not legal and therefore not really 'cards'. That makes them awesome and the way to go with these kind of things.
Not true at all, here's the original announcement: This is wisdom.A card that does nothing useful, and a card that does nothing at all are essentially the same thing when competing for deck slots.Command Tower outside of EDH is no different than Eage
Except in practice the Tower gives more problems. I like to be able to shuffle up my EDH deck for a normal casual game. Variant formats should always have the normal game as a base. I can't play pauper with my legacy deck, I can't play EDH with my modern deck. But I should be able to take my pauper, legacy or EDH deck and play a normal game with it.
If you for some reason choose to run Eager Cadet , it does what it does in every game of Magic.
Here, this says it best. You couldn't shuffle up a commander deck with the Tower in it and have it do anything. Even if it just tapped for , that would be better than nothing, which it is now, outside of Commander.
Here, this says it best. You couldn't shuffle up a commander deck with the Tower in it and have it do anything. Even if it just tapped for :1m:, that would be better than nothing, which it is now, outside of Commander.
...and thus likely to be present in copious amounts in all five Command decks.
Think about this statement just a little bit more.
I'm sorry, you're gonna have to pretend I cannot read your mind from wherever you are and spell this one out for me.
Think about this statement just a little bit more.[/quote]I'm sorry, you're gonna have to pretend I cannot read your mind from wherever you are and spell this one out for me.
...and thus likely to be present in copious amounts in all five Command decks.
Think about this statement just a little bit more.
I'm sorry, you're gonna have to pretend I cannot read your mind from wherever you are and spell this one out for me.
He means that since Commander is a singleton format, it is literally impossible to have copious amounts of the land in a Commander deck unless you define copious as one.
Think about this statement just a little bit more.[/quote]I'm sorry, you're gonna have to pretend I cannot read your mind from wherever you are and spell this one out for me.[/quote]He means that since Commander is a singleton format, it is literally
...and thus likely to be present in copious amounts in all five Command decks.
Think about this statement just a little bit more.
I'm sorry, you're gonna have to pretend I cannot read your mind from wherever you are and spell this one out for me.
He means that since Commander is a singleton format, it is literally impossible to have copious amounts of the land in a Commander deck unless you define copious as one.
He's making the assumption that I am talking about having multiples of anything other than a basic land in the deck, but I'm not. There's no value between 0 and 1 in this game, so if I had 1 of a card, it would be an infinity compared to none at all. Sure, what I said was a little confusing, as it so often is, but taken in context, perhaps not so much.
Think about this statement just a little bit more.[/quote]I'm sorry, you're gonna have to pretend I cannot read your mind from wherever you are and spell this one out for me.[/quote]He means that since Commander is a singleton format, it is literally
I don't feel command tower needs a drawback. It's narrow, usable in only one format, and is a mana fixxer, and you can only play ONE of them in a deck. It's nice, for sure, but it's hardly all powerful, especially when you consider the 100 card format. The format itself provides the drawback.
I don't feel command tower needs a drawback. It's narrow, usable in only one format, and is a mana fixxer, and you can only play ONE of them in a deck. It's nice, for sure, but it's hardly all powerful, especially when you consider the 100 card forma
I don't feel command tower needs a drawback. It's narrow, usable in only one format, and is a mana fixxer, and you can only play ONE of them in a deck. It's nice, for sure, but it's hardly all powerful, especially when you consider the 100 card format. The format itself provides the drawback.
You must understand that this is a format where people prefer, in multicolor EDH, to have as many lands that can produce most, if not all, of their General's colors at all times. There are some cheap Generals and the need to get them out turn two if necessary (or earlier) while paying two to three colors of mana to do it becomes important. Otherwise, you spend most of your time trying to mana fix. And manafixing here is the key: all EDH does it, and thus all EDH need it, even when the only "fixing" is numbers (I run several onecolor EDH decks, and they still need to get to General-mana, either 5-8, with enough mana to support or protect said guy).
Otherwise, printing a City of Brass without drawback becomes BROKEN in any other format, and this is why it has that format-based restriction attached to it. Are you prevented from just slinging this deck as a 100card Singleton/Highlander deck? Yes. But then, most people who play 100Singleton don't actually use their commander decks to do so ... that limits you too much. The drawback becomes necessary to focus the power of the card (a free Rupture Spire in EDH) to something that cannot be abused in other formats.
You must understand that this is a format where people prefer, in multicolor EDH, to have as many lands that can produce most, if not all, of their General's colors at all times. There are some cheap Generals and the need to get them out turn two if
Except in practice the Tower gives more problems. I like to be able to shuffle up my EDH deck for a normal casual game. Variant formats should always have the normal game as a base. I can't play pauper with my legacy deck, I can't play EDH with my modern deck. But I should be able to take my pauper, legacy or EDH deck and play a normal game with it.
If you for some reason choose to run Eager Cadet , it does what it does in every game of Magic.
Here, this says it best. You couldn't shuffle up a commander deck with the Tower in it and have it do anything. Even if it just tapped for , that would be better than nothing, which it is now, outside of Commander.
O_o
Is this actually a thing people do?
if so, is it really that big a deal to swap in a basic land for a single card in your deck when you're (for whatever reason) trying to play normal magic with an EDH deck?
Here, this says it best. You couldn't shuffle up a commander deck with the Tower in it and have it do anything. Even if it just tapped for :1m:, that would be better than nothing, which it is now, outside of Commander. [/quote]O_oIs this actually a t
if so, is it really that big a deal to swap in a basic land for a single card in your deck when you're (for whatever reason) trying to play normal magic with an EDH deck?
Yes they do and yes it is. From another thread:
alextfish wrote:
Add me to the count of players who regularly play an EDH deck with non-EDH rules. I have a delightful Cromat five-colour-goodstuff deck built under the restriction "no monocolour cards". It's one of the most hilariously fun decks I own, and so as well as playing it in EDH, I'll frequently play it against a friend's 60-card casual deck, with Cromat just shuffled in as another card I might draw.
Now, I'm going to have to say "Oh, and if I draw the Command Tower, can we rule that it taps for colourless?" (Or if I'm cheeky, "taps for any colour?" But my friends are less likely to agree to that.) It just makes the game more fiddly. It means my deck that used to work in two formats now has to either (a) not add this card which is awesome and specifically designed for one of them, or (b) need house rules for casual, or (c) need me to sideboard before playing (very fiddly).
In fact, my friends will often grab decks off my shelves to play against each other. If one of them grabs Cromat and the other grabs a 60-card deck, I'll now have to tell each of them "You should figure out what Command Tower taps for before you play".
It's just adding obstructions to what used to be nice and easy.
I don't know why everyone is complaining because I believe, when they first announced the Commander decks, said that they would be building them with the new cards specifically so they could be played in the Commander format and no where else.
Not true at all, here's the original announcement:
Magic: The Gathering Commander will contain brand-new cards! We've been looking for outlets to create new multiplayer-friendly card designs for years, and this was the perfect place. There are 51 unique new cards spread across the five decks (some cards appear in multiple decks). These are real, black-bordered Magic cards that will be legal in Eternal formats (Vintage and Legacy) as well as casual games the world over. These cards are meant to appeal to many different kinds of Commander and multiplayer players: power gamers, flavor fanatics, and those who approach the game much more politically.
That original announcement is true of every new card except for Command Tower. 50 out of 51. At least, as far as we know. It's possible that more will be previewed that mention commanders specifically, but of the ones we've seen so far, everything but Command Tower works perfectly well in every format. And no, of course they aren't all good in every format, but that would be impossible to accomplish and they've never made cards that way before, so I hope no one expected them to do it that way here. I would say that they are all meant to "appeal to many different kinds of Commander and multiplayer players". You'll notice that doesn't specifically mention one-on-one games, so no, I wouldn't expect cards to be as good in one on one. (Although I see at least one card that is better in one-on-one than in multiplayer.)
But still, the point is: 50 out of 51. Exactly how big a problem is that 51st card?
if so, is it really that big a deal to swap in a basic land for a single card in your deck when you're (for whatever reason) trying to play normal magic with an EDH deck?
Yes they do and yes it is. From another thread:
alextfish wrote:
Add me to the count of players who regularly play an EDH deck with non-EDH rules. I have a delightful Cromat five-colour-goodstuff deck built under the restriction "no monocolour cards". It's one of the most hilariously fun decks I own, and so as well as playing it in EDH, I'll frequently play it against a friend's 60-card casual deck, with Cromat just shuffled in as another card I might draw.
Now, I'm going to have to say "Oh, and if I draw the Command Tower, can we rule that it taps for colourless?" (Or if I'm cheeky, "taps for any colour?" But my friends are less likely to agree to that.) It just makes the game more fiddly. It means my deck that used to work in two formats now has to either (a) not add this card which is awesome and specifically designed for one of them, or (b) need house rules for casual, or (c) need me to sideboard before playing (very fiddly).
In fact, my friends will often grab decks off my shelves to play against each other. If one of them grabs Cromat and the other grabs a 60-card deck, I'll now have to tell each of them "You should figure out what Command Tower taps for before you play".
It's just adding obstructions to what used to be nice and easy.
I'll totally agree that overall it's bad design that people need house rules to play with a certain card outside a certain format. Sure. Probably the best way for them to have handled Command Tower would be for it to say something like "T: add to your mana pool one mana of any color in the casting cost of a card in your command zone or permanent card you control". (So if you're playing Commander, it works like it now does, and if you aren't it gives you mana of any color you already have. Which is slightly worse overall, but, well, it's still designed for a certain format.) They should have done that, or something or other like that.
But given that they screwed this up, again, is it really that big a deal? I don't know you or your friends, but personally I'd allow it to tap for any color. That's exactly how it would play in a Commander game. If that's overpowered, well, all kinds of cards are overpowered, and it's just a singleton. I find it hard to believe that this will really cause all that many problems.
Not true at all, here's the original announcement:[/quote]That original announcement is true of every new card except for Command Tower. 50 out of 51. At least, as far as we know. It's possible that more will be previewed that mention commanders spec
if so, is it really that big a deal to swap in a basic land for a single card in your deck when you're (for whatever reason) trying to play normal magic with an EDH deck?
Yes they do and yes it is. From another thread:
alextfish wrote:
Add me to the count of players who regularly play an EDH deck with non-EDH rules. I have a delightful Cromat five-colour-goodstuff deck built under the restriction "no monocolour cards". It's one of the most hilariously fun decks I own, and so as well as playing it in EDH, I'll frequently play it against a friend's 60-card casual deck, with Cromat just shuffled in as another card I might draw.
Now, I'm going to have to say "Oh, and if I draw the Command Tower, can we rule that it taps for colourless?" (Or if I'm cheeky, "taps for any colour?" But my friends are less likely to agree to that.) It just makes the game more fiddly. It means my deck that used to work in two formats now has to either (a) not add this card which is awesome and specifically designed for one of them, or (b) need house rules for casual, or (c) need me to sideboard before playing (very fiddly).
In fact, my friends will often grab decks off my shelves to play against each other. If one of them grabs Cromat and the other grabs a 60-card deck, I'll now have to tell each of them "You should figure out what Command Tower taps for before you play".
It's just adding obstructions to what used to be nice and easy.
alextfish says it best. It's "fiddly" when there's no reason a small tweak couldn't have been added that would have made it non-fiddly.
Really, the biggest reason is that it's sort of a "meta" issue. The card itself isn't crazy. It should be pretty easy for house rules to take care of it (it's either 'tap for or a painless city of brass), it just did something that had never really been done before, and frankly it reeks of something like "splice onto arcane". It's one thing to skew cards towards limited to the point where they're essentially worthless in tournament constructed, but as long as they can still work in other formats (cube, reject-rare, etc), then I can just roll my eyes and move on. This card breaks that rule. It's an unspoken rule, and it has been bent, stretched, poked and twisted, but (outside of Un-sets), never truly broken.
There was no reason to break this rule. WOTC's R&D could have fixed this in a heartbeat. The community recognized this as an issue instantly, how did this get past Development?
Yes they do and yes it is. From another thread:[/quote]alextfish says it best. It's "fiddly" when there's no reason a small tweak couldn't have been added that would have made it non-fiddly. Really, the biggest reason is that it's sort of a "meta" is
There was no reason to break this rule. WOTC's R&D could have fixed this in a heartbeat. The community recognized this as an issue instantly, how did this get past Development?
It seems Development actually made it...
From Latest Developments:
We liked having around fifty new cards; this product is significantly smaller than a booster release, and we didn't want to overshadow either New Phyrexia or Magic 2012. On the other hand, fifteen new cards seemed to be a lot better than ten—people would usually have a new card in their opening hand. Could we get there? I started to play with some numbers... What if a few of the cards overlapped between the decks? Could we keep the number of new cards at fifty while increasing the number of new cards per deck to fifteen?
Almost. We identified ten mono-color cards that could each go in three decks. These were previously in just one deck each, so we ended up with an additional four cards in each deck. This gave us fourteen. Aha! How about increasing the size of the set of new cards by just one and putting this into every deck! This gave us our fifty-one-card set and fifteen cards in each deck.
So the card doesn't even have that a noble reason to exist. It's just filling some quota.
That truly sucks...
It seems Development actually made it...From Latest Developments:So the card doesn't even have that a noble reason to exist. It's just filling some quota. That truly sucks...
Reflecting Pool basically solves all the problems with Command Tower. It's not broken, it works in any format, it works in any EDH deck. I really wish they'd just printed that, or continued the shards cycle from Alara.
[c]Reflecting Pool[/c] basically solves all the problems with Command Tower. It's not broken, it works in any format, it works in any EDH deck. I really wish they'd just printed that, or continued the shards cycle from Alara.
Reflecting Pool basically solves all the problems with Command Tower. It's not broken, it works in any format, it works in any EDH deck. I really wish they'd just printed that, or continued the shards cycle from Alara.
Reflecting Pool plus a Mountain plus a Forest doesn't let you play Animar, Soul of Elements on turn 3. And aside from the fact that Alara shardlands ETBT, there's also the fact they would have needed to commission four more arts, names and flavor texts if they weren't using one card for all five decks.
My problem with CT is just that the text is really ugly. "Color identity" is a somewhat useful term that I wouldn't mind seeing in regular Magic to clarify cards like Gruul Nodorog as being "more than green, less than green-red". But "any of the colors of your commander's color identity" is just a hideous phrase. There are no other alternatives that work just as well, but I'd rather they'd just said "add one mana of any color to your mana pool if you have a commander". The net effect would have been the same (due to the rule that colors not on your commander become colorless mana), but it wouldn't roll off the tongue so awkwardly.
Reflecting Pool plus a Mountain plus a Forest doesn't let you play Animar, Soul of Elements on turn 3. And aside from the fact that Alara shardlands ETBT, there's also the fact they would have needed to commission four more arts, names and flavor
Reflecting Pool basically solves all the problems with Command Tower. It's not broken, it works in any format, it works in any EDH deck. I really wish they'd just printed that, or continued the shards cycle from Alara.
Reflecting Pool plus a Mountain plus a Forest doesn't let you play Animar, Soul of Elements on turn 3. And aside from the fact that Alara shardlands ETBT, there's also the fact they would have needed to commission four more arts, names and flavor texts if they weren't using one card for all five decks.
You and I apparently disagree on what people should be able to play quickly and without any significant cost. When you're playing a three-colour deck, whatever the format, you're going to need mana-fixing. The whole point of playing multi-coloured decks is that you trade more power and less weakness for randomness and mana issues. Make mana fixing too good, and colour doesn't matter anymore. Ergo, they stopped printing dual lands and were even too scared to reprint the Ravnica dual-land cycle. The shard-lands were already on the powerful side (I highly doubt they'd be printed otherwise). Reflecting Pool still helps you get around a lot of icky double mana requirements, but it's not broken in half. And you're right, wedge-lands would be more costly for Wizards. On the other hand, this would've been a great place to print them because they're unlikely to show up in later sets.
Let's face it: the only thing that keeps Command Tower even a little in check is the fact that you can only play a single one.
My problem with CT is just that the text is really ugly. "Color identity" is a somewhat useful term that I wouldn't mind seeing in regular Magic to clarify cards like Gruul Nodorog as being "more than green, less than green-red". But "any of the colors of your commander's color identity" is just a hideous phrase. There are no other alternatives that work just as well, but I'd rather they'd just said "add one mana of any color to your mana pool if you have a commander". The net effect would have been the same (due to the rule that colors not on your commander become colorless mana), but it wouldn't roll off the tongue so awkwardly.
Oh, that's true as well, though I weep for the day that the colour of mana in activated abilities is going to be important. The stupid thing is that, in your wording, the "if you have a commander" line doesn't even matter. It only matters to keep the land out of Vintage.
Reflecting Pool plus a Mountain plus a Forest doesn't let you play Animar, Soul of Elements on turn 3. And aside from the fact that Alara shardlands ETBT, there's also the fact they would have needed to commission four more arts, names and flavor
The stupid thing is that, in your wording, the "if you have a commander" line doesn't even matter. It only matters to keep the land out of Vintage.
Well yeah, that's exactly why it's needed. Otherwise it could just say "Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, full stop". But even if it was somehow perma-restricted (as opposed to just legendary), one would be one too many in Vintage/Legacy/Modern.
Well yeah, that's exactly why it's needed. Otherwise it could just say "Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, full stop". But even if it was somehow perma-restricted (as opposed to just legendary), one would be one too many in Vintage/Legacy
The stupid thing is that, in your wording, the "if you have a commander" line doesn't even matter. It only matters to keep the land out of Vintage.
Well yeah, that's exactly why it's needed. Otherwise it could just say "Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, full stop". But even if it was somehow perma-restricted (as opposed to just legendary), one would be one too many in Vintage/Legacy/Modern.
If I were Wizards, I would be hesitant to design a card with a rider which invalidates it for all but one format simply because it would be a 4-of in any deck ever.
Well yeah, that's exactly why it's needed. Otherwise it could just say "Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, full stop". But even if it was somehow perma-restricted (as opposed to just legendary), one would be one too many in Vintage/Legacy
Whereas I believe that designing cards only for specific formats is exactly what Wizards should theoretically do, if not for the fact that it would be business suicide and the company still has that inconvenient need to make money or go "poof". Utter nonsense that a company that produces a unique and high-quality product should need to prove its worth to society (and/or to a boardroom full of shareholders) in order to keep its doors open, but that's Earth for you.
Whereas I believe that designing cards only for specific formats is exactly what Wizards should theoretically do, if not for the fact that it would be business suicide and the company still has that inconvenient need to make money or go "poof". Utte
Whereas I believe that designing cards only for specific formats is exactly what Wizards should theoretically do, if not for the fact that it would be business suicide and the company still has that inconvenient need to make money or go "poof". Utter nonsense that a company that produces a unique and high-quality product should need to prove its worth to society (and/or to a boardroom full of shareholders) in order to keep its doors open, but that's Earth for you.
Apart from marketing and rarity maneuvers, sales are how you tell a product's quality and worth to society. Furthermore, sales feed back into the quality of the next iteration of the game - you have to pay people to design and produce it. Or are you objecting to the limited resources situation in which there can't be a separate and unique quality game designed for each six person gaming group?
Apart from marketing and rarity maneuvers, sales are how you tell a product's quality and worth to society. Furthermore, sales feed back into the quality of the next iteration of the game - you have to pay people to design and produce it. Or are yo
Or are you objecting to the limited resources situation in which there can't be a separate and unique quality game designed for each six person gaming group?
Well, yes. Considering how big we know the cosmos to be, I find it thoroughly ridiculous that one billion such groups (pretending for a moment that everyone plays games, which of course they should) are stuck on this tiny mudball planet fighting over scraps. The Singularity is a good decade overdue here, man, I'm getting ancy.
Well, yes. Considering how big we know the cosmos to be, I find it thoroughly ridiculous that one billion such groups (pretending for a moment that everyone plays games, which of course they should) are stuck on this tiny mudball planet fighting
Whereas I believe that designing cards only for specific formats is exactly what Wizards should theoretically do, if not for the fact that it would be business suicide and the company still has that inconvenient need to make money or go "poof". Utter nonsense that a company that produces a unique and high-quality product should need to prove its worth to society (and/or to a boardroom full of shareholders) in order to keep its doors open, but that's Earth for you.
There are lots of decisions that Wizards could take which would improve sales, especially in the short run. The no-reprint list, for example. But they don't, because they value their word.
Senseless stuff like Command Tower only decrease sales in the long run. I weep for the day that they decide to print an Index for your scheme deck in an Archenemy product, because as good as it would play within Archenemy, it's useless outside, and most players like to play whatever, wherever, whenever.
There's a reason Wizards stopped printing stupid stuff like Apocalypse Chime : it's because people hate cards which are useless outside of a highly specific environment. At least Ronom Hulk still does something outside of Coldsnap. There's a reason people harp on Kamigawa block: it's parasitic. Players hate parasitic cards and mechanics. This is the most parasitic card they've ever printed.
I dislike the Join Forces cards for the same reasons, but at least you can do fun stuff in duels with those as well.
There are lots of decisions that Wizards could take which would improve sales, especially in the short run. The no-reprint list, for example. But they don't, because they value their word.Senseless stuff like Command Tower only decrease sales in the
The stupid thing is that, in your wording, the "if you have a commander" line doesn't even matter. It only matters to keep the land out of Vintage.
Well yeah, that's exactly why it's needed. Otherwise it could just say "Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, full stop". But even if it was somehow perma-restricted (as opposed to just legendary), one would be one too many in Vintage/Legacy/Modern.
I don't have a problem with WOTC nerfing the color-fixing outside of Commander. The problem with this design is that the entire card is nerfed outside Commander. As I've been saying, every other card they've designed for these new decks can be played outside the format and still work. Command Tower basically has " " outside of the Commander format. How hard would it have been to word it " to add to your mana pool. If you control a Commander, instead you may add one mana of any color in that Commander's color identity to your mana pool." ?
Well yeah, that's exactly why it's needed. Otherwise it could just say "Add one mana of any color to your mana pool, full stop". But even if it was somehow perma-restricted (as opposed to just legendary), one would be one too many in Vintage/Legacy
How hard would it have been to word it " to add to your mana pool. If you control a Commander, instead you may add one mana of any color in that Commander's color identity to your mana pool." ?
Well that wouldn't really have helped. At best it would inch us one closer to the day a non-commander Highlander deck can use all nonbasic lands, which is a dubious goal anyway.
Well that wouldn't really have helped. At best it would inch us one closer to the day a non-commander Highlander deck can use all nonbasic lands, which is a dubious goal anyway.
How hard would it have been to word it " to add to your mana pool. If you control a Commander, instead you may add one mana of any color in that Commander's color identity to your mana pool." ?
Well that wouldn't really have helped. At best it would inch us one closer to the day a non-commander Highlander deck can use all nonbasic lands, which is a dubious goal anyway.
Also a pretty easy one. Ten original duals, ten Ravnica duals, ten painlands, ten fetchlands, we're done.
Well that wouldn't really have helped. At best it would inch us one closer to the day a non-commander Highlander deck can use all nonbasic lands, which is a dubious goal anyway.[/quote]Also a pretty easy one. Ten original duals, ten Ravnica duals,
Also a pretty easy one. Ten original duals, ten Ravnica duals, ten painlands, ten fetchlands, we're done.
If, of course, you have several hundred dollars to burn on $10-20-a-pop lands. I was thinking more like 1 Cloudpost, 1 Glimmerpost, 1 Glimmervoid, 1 Thran Quarry, 4 Urza Lands (counting the Factory), 1 Pillar of the Paruns, 1 Desert, 1 Blasted Landscape, 1 Reflecting Pool....you probably get the idea. Not much cheaper, but a heck of a lot more interesting (in the sense of the Chinese curse, Spike would argue).
If, of course, you have several hundred dollars to burn on $10-20-a-pop lands. I was thinking more like 1 Cloudpost, 1 Glimmerpost, 1 Glimmervoid, 1 Thran Quarry, 4 Urza Lands (counting the Factory), 1 Pillar of the Paruns, 1 Desert, 1 Blasted Lands
How hard would it have been to word it " to add to your mana pool. If you control a Commander, instead you may add one mana of any color in that Commander's color identity to your mana pool." ?
Well that wouldn't really have helped. At best it would inch us one closer to the day a non-commander Highlander deck can use all nonbasic lands, which is a dubious goal anyway.
Sorry, you've lost me. My idea only produces one colorless mana if there's no Commander present (strictly worse than a basic land if I'm not mistaken). The mana-fixing only works in Commander, which is how the current card works, but mine has the benefit of doing "something" outside of that format instead of being a dead card.
What exactly is your issue with the way I worded that?
Well that wouldn't really have helped. At best it would inch us one closer to the day a non-commander Highlander deck can use all nonbasic lands, which is a dubious goal anyway.[/quote]Sorry, you've lost me. My idea only produces one colorless mana
Also a pretty easy one. Ten original duals, ten Ravnica duals, ten painlands, ten fetchlands, we're done.
If, of course, you have several hundred dollars to burn on $10-20-a-pop lands. I was thinking more like 1 Cloudpost, 1 Glimmerpost, 1 Glimmervoid, 1 Thran Quarry, 4 Urza Lands (counting the Factory), 1 Pillar of the Paruns, 1 Desert, 1 Blasted Landscape, 1 Reflecting Pool....you probably get the idea. Not much cheaper, but a heck of a lot more interesting (in the sense of the Chinese curse, Spike would argue).
I was just giving the easy example using the 10 land cycles. Alternatively, you can do it with 5-card common and uncommon cycles. 5 Shards tri-lands, 5 Planeshift tri-lands, 10 Ravnica bounce-lands, 5 Vivid lands, 5 Zendikar tapped duals, 5 Coldsnap tapped duals, 5 Invasion tapped duals.
If you don't care about fixing but still want colored mana, there are 15 various storage lands, 15 various lands that can produce 2 but then die, 10 cycling lands, 5 artifact lands, 5 Odyssey sac lands, 5 Shadowmoor "improved basics", 6 Future Sight uncommon lands, 10 Tempest and Kamigawa depletion lands... Wizards has printed a lot of non-basic lands.
If, of course, you have several hundred dollars to burn on $10-20-a-pop lands. I was thinking more like 1 Cloudpost, 1 Glimmerpost, 1 Glimmervoid, 1 Thran Quarry, 4 Urza Lands (counting the Factory), 1 Pillar of the Paruns, 1 Desert, 1 Blasted Lands
Sorry, you've lost me. My idea only produces one colorless mana if there's no Commander present (strictly worse than a basic land if I'm not mistaken). The mana-fixing only works in Commander, which is how the current card works, but mine has the benefit of doing "something" outside of that format instead of being a dead card.
Except it's really not a "something". Lands that tap for colorless also have some other ability which makes them useful in some fashion - 1 or more free life, the ability to cycle it if you don't need it, the potential to produce more than one mana if others of the set are in play, a token-making power when you're full up on mana, one and only one mana of any color, mana of any color every two turns, damage to attacking creatures, sacking stuff for life, untapping another land, returning a land from the graveyard - something. But Command Tower with tap-for-colorless doesn't have something - it's strictly worse than a basic land. You'd have absolutely zero reason to run it, apart from liking the art or being terribly afraid of the devastating Tsunami + Magical Hack wrecking ball.
There just plain wasn't any way for them to make the card useful to even the most casual non-commander player, so they didn't even try. I can live with that.
Except it's really not a "something". Lands that tap for colorless also have some other ability which makes them useful in some fashion - 1 or more free life, the ability to cycle it if you don't need it, the potential to produce more than one
Sorry, you've lost me. My idea only produces one colorless mana if there's no Commander present (strictly worse than a basic land if I'm not mistaken). The mana-fixing only works in Commander, which is how the current card works, but mine has the benefit of doing "something" outside of that format instead of being a dead card.
Except it's really not a "something". Lands that tap for colorless also have some other ability which makes them useful in some fashion - 1 or more free life, the ability to cycle it if you don't need it, the potential to produce more than one mana if others of the set are in play, a token-making power when you're full up on mana, one and only one mana of any color, mana of any color every two turns, damage to attacking creatures, sacking stuff for life, untapping another land, returning a land from the graveyard - something. But Command Tower with tap-for-colorless doesn't have something - it's strictly worse than a basic land. You'd have absolutely zero reason to run it, apart from liking the art or being terribly afraid of the devastating Tsunami + Magical Hack wrecking ball.
There just plain wasn't any way for them to make the card useful to even the most casual non-commander player, so they didn't even try. I can live with that.
You should note that Gemstone Caverns produces colorless without its luck counter. In fact, WotC could have adapted this technology by making Command Tower a variant on this.
Command Tower Land As Command Tower enters the battlefield, if you have a Commander in any zone, it enters the battlefield with a command counter on it. Otherwise, it enters the battlefield tapped. {Tap}: Add {1} to your mana pool. If Command Tower has a command counter on it, instead add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
I've even added a further restriction that makes it worse than a basic land. Mind you, it's just as wordy, and would have a colorless pinstripe.
Except it's really not a "something". Lands that tap for colorless also have some other ability which makes them useful in some fashion - 1 or more free life, the ability to cycle it if you don't need it, the potential to produce more than one
Sorry, you've lost me. My idea only produces one colorless mana if there's no Commander present (strictly worse than a basic land if I'm not mistaken). The mana-fixing only works in Commander, which is how the current card works, but mine has the benefit of doing "something" outside of that format instead of being a dead card.
Except it's really not a "something". Lands that tap for colorless also have some other ability which makes them useful in some fashion - 1 or more free life, the ability to cycle it if you don't need it, the potential to produce more than one mana if others of the set are in play, a token-making power when you're full up on mana, one and only one mana of any color, mana of any color every two turns, damage to attacking creatures, sacking stuff for life, untapping another land, returning a land from the graveyard - something. But Command Tower with tap-for-colorless doesn't have something - it's strictly worse than a basic land. You'd have absolutely zero reason to run it, apart from liking the art or being terribly afraid of the devastating Tsunami + Magical Hack wrecking ball.
There just plain wasn't any way for them to make the card useful to even the most casual non-commander player, so they didn't even try. I can live with that.
You should note that Gemstone Caverns produces colorless without its luck counter. In fact, WotC could have adapted this technology by making Command Tower a variant on this.
Command Tower Land As Command Tower enters the battlefield, if you have a Commander in any zone, it enters the battlefield with a command counter on it. Otherwise, it enters the battlefield tapped. {Tap}: Add {1} to your mana pool. If Command Tower has a command counter on it, instead add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
I've even added a further restriction that makes it worse than a basic land. Mind you, it's just as wordy, and would have a colorless pinstripe.
Qilong, I still feel that's over-thinking it. I'm would be fine with it only tapping for colorless mana outside of Commander.
Not sure if it was earlier in this thread, or the ICD in Future Set Speculation, but someone put it very plainly, you need to be able to shuffle the commander into the deck and just be able to play it as a regular singleton deck. In that scenario, the Command Tower as printed is useless. As I've suggested, it can do something.
willpell, I'm usually the first out of the gate to bash an intentionally bad card (which is what a land that only tapped for without some other function would be), but I've also said over and over, I can accept all the other cards designed specifically for Commander because they can still work in any other format. This land can not. There's plenty of cards I've pulled from packs over the years that I don't ever see myself playing, but I don't rail against WOTC for printing them because I know they can be used. This land can not.
Except it's really not a "something". Lands that tap for colorless also have some other ability which makes them useful in some fashion - 1 or more free life, the ability to cycle it if you don't need it, the potential to produce more than one
At first, I thought having new cards in a non-booster products was a bad idea, and even emailed Wizards about that, for the very reason you mentionned.
Now, I see the reasons why did so. And the product really look amazing. I am even going to buy one of them, and start playing commander, which is something I've been considering for a while, and these products are the perfect opportunity.
Yes, these products are awesome. Nevertheless, having new cards is also a huge drawback,especially when the product is a commander deck where every card is a 1-of, and you knew this.
The first time I saw Edric, I just thought that's the perfect card to give the right amount of power to a deck of mine. But then I checked the predicted prices ... maybe I'm not going to put this deck together finally .
And this was highly predictable. Say a highly wanted card can be found only by buying a $30 pack to get 1 copy. Will it be cheap to acquire ? I don't think so.
I'm not complaining about having new cards in it, but instead of rushing into this because you decided there should be one multiplayer product with overized cards in it every summer, you could have slowly put the highly desirable cards in one extension or in another, so they wouldn't be that difficult to acquire. I mean just take the vows cycle. They could totally make it in a core set !
That being said, what about cards like Flusterstorm ? Was it really necessary to make this card, knowing it would go only in 1 of your commander decks, would only be 1 among 60~70 other spells, and could probably do nothing in a format that encourages better ressource devellopment ? I hardly think so.
So while these products really rock, I still think there was better ways to do this.
I would probably say it's not to late to make some commander booster packs, but I won't, because it could actually be too late. Unless this decision is taken lightning fast, and announced clearly just as fast, it's very likely that some players will try very hard to acquire the aforrmentionned cards, and would feel betrayed if they were to be the opportunity to open them in booster packs.
It will take much more than this to quit Magic, but still, it really makes me sad. And I think you kind of screw it this time.
At first, I thought having new cards in a non-booster products was a bad idea, and even emailed Wizards about that, for the very reason you mentionned. Now, I see the reasons why did so. And the product really look amazing. I am even going to buy on
to your mana pool if you don't have a commander, no one would play it. It would have functionality, yet still be inferior to any other land for any other role you could possibly need a land to fill in a legacy or casual deck.
" outside of the Commander format. How hard would it have been to word it " 
