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Switch to Forum Live View 05/23/2011 MM: "Mana Action"
2 years ago  ::  May 20, 2011 - 3:08PM #1
Garmichael
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 1,572
This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 9:24PM #2
GeoSantista
Date Joined: Feb 1, 2006
Posts: 70
"How about a mythic soda?"

"You're not taking into account Robocop's superior understanding of the legal system."

I laughed =P
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 9:30PM #3
.Blaze.
Date Joined: Jan 24, 2011
Posts: 508
Great article. For all the reasons you said, I love the mana. Of them I think the flow it helps create to be the best thing about it.

Also, I REALLY love the R&D comics. The My Little Pony one is probably my favorite so far. 
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 9:32PM #4
Drecon84
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 387
I agree with Mark on almost all of his points. The mana system of magic is in fact awesome.

I disagree however that the randomness is always good. I've played card games that let you play spells that you don't need as land. It works so much better. This approach still makes you spend your recources and only allows you to play a land each turn but the absence of mana screw makes a player have some control over the flow of the game, essentially making for a more fun experience.

I know Magic was the first game, and these other games have all based their mana systems off of magic, but it does seem to work better for these games in a way.
Well, except that I still like magic better of course.
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 9:59PM #5
metalevolence
Date Joined: Oct 10, 2009
Posts: 3,187

May 22, 2011 -- 9:32PM, Drecon84 wrote:

I agree with Mark on almost all of his points. The mana system of magic is in fact awesome.

I disagree however that the randomness is always good. I've played card games that let you play spells that you don't need as land. It works so much better. This approach still makes you spend your recources and only allows you to play a land each turn but the absence of mana screw makes a player have some control over the flow of the game, essentially making for a more fun experience.

I know Magic was the first game, and these other games have all based their mana systems off of magic, but it does seem to work better for these games in a way.
Well, except that I still like magic better of course.



I wonder, if they acknowledged that a system where you can play unneeded cards as mana sources would be better, how they could go about implementing that.

http://magiccardswithgooglyeyes.tumblr.com/
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 10:11PM #6
GeoSantista
Date Joined: Feb 1, 2006
Posts: 70
I dunno how they would make it mecchanically:

Putting the card face down to say it makes (colorless?) mana is not available. Face down cards are 2/2 creatures;

Putting some kind of counter to mark those cards as mana sources instead of spells is a bad idea. It could create memory issues;

A solution to mana screw and mana flood on the terms above could obsolete many land cards. The only thing I'd advocate, if such solutions were implemented, is the removal of mulliganing if mana issues were no more.
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 10:28PM #7
Drecon84
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 387
I often play a variant where you can put your cards upside-down (like the flip cards, Budoka Gardener and friends).

It works quite well, especially if you make these lands count as basic lands. It does change the valuation of land fetchers of course, and multicolored cards (as these are now essentially double lands).

It's actually a really fun variant to play.
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 10:33PM #8
willpell
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Posts: 4,833
It's totally possible to eliminate mana screw from the game, in about a  half-dozen ways.  Probably the best and easiest is to separate lands and  spells into two separate libraries and choose which one to draw from  whenever you draw.  Certain cards would not work under this format but  the majority of the game would function fine.  There's also the  spells-as-lands variant, although I don't really care for that one  myself, I like the fact that lands are cards but I wish they were more  interesting, like if you got some kind of bonus based on which basic  lands you chose to play.  However it's probably not possible to  institute such a system this late into the game.

By the way,  those three comics he posted here are pretty good, but I used to follow  Mark on Twitter and almost all of the comics I saw there just plain  sucked.  A lot of the humor in TFTP seems to be incomprehensible to  anyone who doesn't work in R&D - or else it's just not funny in the  first place.  So I don't feel like bothering to go look at any more.

This  is where the mana system comes in. By making spells have a  cost,  you  are able to make different cards important at different parts  of the   game. Why would you ever play a weaker spell? Because it's  cheaper.   It's something you can do during the early parts of the  game.




Yes, this is exactly why we have cards like Goblin  Guide Garruk's Companion , Blade Splicer Burning-Tree  Shaman , and Phyrexian Obliterator .  Because  you're not  allowed to gain a powerful effect without a commensurate  cost.

Oh, wait, unless you spend lots of money.  Then you're  totally allowed to trash players who play with commons.  Right, I  remember now.

My New Phyrexia Writing Credits
My M12 Writing Credits

As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing.
--Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 10:34PM #9
chucklezdaccc
Date Joined: Feb 27, 2007
Posts: 259
I like the mana system.  I just hate getting land screwed/flooded on MTGO.  sour grapes I know.  Tongue out


"Drecon84 : Well, except that I still like magic better of course."  Does anyone play any of the other games out there anymore?  Tournament wise I mean.



LOL at willpell up there
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2 years ago  ::  May 22, 2011 - 10:41PM #10
Axterix
Date Joined: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 1,882
Yeah, mana system is good, except when it decides the game due to mana-screw or mana flood.  Of course, that is because random is random.

The main thing I don't care for is the tendency to not have some form of enemy duals around.  Want to encourage allied colors by having more duals of that sort?  Fine.  Just make sure there's always 1 enemy color set of duals available as well, as otherwise, the tendency to give more powerful cards more of the same mana symbol really hinders the ability to play enemy colors, setting up a situation where the limits are too much, bad limits.  After all, I can play a Phyrexian Obliterator with no problem in B/U or B/R, thanks to 3 playable duals (and a fourth if I wanted to use it).  Yet I can have troubles dropping a Howling Banshee in B/W when I hit 4 lands.
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