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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 6:43AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2005
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If time is called in a match, there are five turns left to play. How is that count affected when Karn  's ultimate ability is used? EDIT: Just realized the FAQ says the game ends without anyone winning/losing/drawing. So I guess since the game is over whatever their current record is will determine match winner.
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 6:59AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2009
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That's one way to look at it, but it certainly doesn't seem 'right', given that Karn's ultimate could easily win someone the game by turn 1 or 2 (any creatures that are put on the battlefield via it won't have summoning sickness).
Looking at the 5 turn rule from the tournament rules:
2.5 End-of-Match ProcedureIf the match time limit is reached before a winner is determined, the player whose turn it is finishes his or her turn and five additional turns are played in total. This usually means that one player takes three turns and the other two, but a player taking additional turns may modify this. Team tournaments featuring multiple players playing together (such as Two-Headed Giant) use three turns instead of five.If the game is incomplete at the end of additional turns, the game is considered a draw.If a judge assigned a time extension (because of a long ruling, deck check, or other reason) the end-of-match procedure does not begin until the end of the time extension.In single-elimination rounds, matches may not end in a draw. If all players have equal game wins, the player with the highest life total wins the current game. In the event all players have equal life totals (or are between games and the game wins are tied), the game/match continues with an additional state-based action: if a player does not have the highest life total, he or she loses the game. Two-Headed Giant teams are treated as a single player for determining a game winner.
While the game immediately ends, I think it's fair to say that it's incomplete - after all, there's been no win, loss or draw. As such, the turns might be able to continue. At least, I would hope so; frankly there's no precedent for this kind of thing and I don't think current rules cover it 100%.
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 7:37AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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Restart the game, to me, implies that everything that happened in the game is essentially alternate reality that paradoxically ceases to exist as if it didn't happen (though it dramatically alters the happenings at the beginning of the rewritten history game)
ie. the game didn't end, it just restarted - you're still playing the same game
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 7:44AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2005
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From the FAQ:
"A game that restarts immediately ends. The players in that game then immediately begin a new game. No player wins, loses, or draws the original game as a result of Karn's ability."
The new CR hasn't been posted as far as I can tell.
But thematically, yes, it seems like the restarted game could continue with remaining turns. But from the FAQ, it seems that it wouldn't by the rules.
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 7:46AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2010
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The rules update section about it suggests that the new game is treated as the same game for scoring purposes. I see no reason why the number of turns remaining wouldn't persist into the new game.
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 7:50AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2005
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If that's the case, does the first turn of the new game count as a seperate turn from the one that was interrupted?
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 7:55AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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If that's the case, does the first turn of the new game count as a seperate turn from the one that was interrupted?
I'd say yes it would, but they may rule it differently.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 9:50AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2010
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It would have to be a separate turn. Even if Karn's controller may end up taking 2 turns in a row, it's not much different from a Time Warp  . The turn doesn't reach an "end" step, but a new game begins, and that game eventually reaches the start of a brand new turn (after leylines, chancellors, ETB triggers from Karn's ultimate and whatnot) So if we're past time on the round, and on turn 1 I use Karn's ultimate, the next turn taken is turn 2. And basically extend a hand, draw the game, rock on.
Sean Stackhouse
Level Two Judge (Yay!)
Maine
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2 years ago ::
May 04, 2011 - 4:55PM
#9
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If the game is restarted in the first of five extra turns, the first turn of the new game will be the second of the extra turns. If Karn's been busy, you might still win ;-P
Magic: The Gathering Rules Manager
Wizards of the Coast
Follow me @TabakRules
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2 years ago ::
May 05, 2011 - 4:15AM
#10
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Just kill the Karn player before it gets to this...lol.
"I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Planeswalkers  on fire off the Seachrome Coast  of Mirrodin. All these spells will be cast like rice at a wedding. Time to duel."
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