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Switch to Forum Live View 05/04/2011 BoaB: "Ascending All Over Again"
2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 5:43PM #1
Garmichael
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 1,572
This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 9:18PM #2
ShardFenix
Date Joined: Mar 2, 2005
Posts: 2,346
To be honest I question the effectiveness of pyroclasm.  Would slagstorm not be the better option here?  It's cheap and deals three.  Also, can you choose different modes when playing it and copies?
I like fun, but competitive decks.  So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 10:25PM #3
pong__sentry
Date Joined: Feb 15, 2009
Posts: 21
Splinter Twin ain't budget any more, bro.  At 9 bucks a pop, you're better off just getting the fetchlands.
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 11:38PM #4
thaprodigy58
Date Joined: Jun 28, 2010
Posts: 4

One combo he didnt mention was the Archive Trap, Trapmaker's Snare Combo( In case you dont know how it works, they crack a fetch land/Fauna Shaman/ do what valakut does, Play the snare, search for BOTH archive traps, play them both, ,mill for 52... GG) So as I see it Pyro has three ways to play it out ALL with legitimate strengths and weaknesses.. so why not play them all?


3  Scalding tarin


11  oid()">Island
oid()">Mountain






21 lands






0 creatures


oid()">Burst Lightning
oid()">Call to Mind -
3  Tezzs gambit
oid()">Gitaxian Probe
oid()">Into the Roil
oid()">Lightning Bolt -
oid()">Mana Leak
oid()">Preordain
oid()">Pyromancer Ascension
oid()">See Beyond
oid()">Spell Pierce -






39 other spells


Sideboard


oid()">Deceiver Exarch
2  Archive Trap
4 Trap
oid()">Splinter Twin


2 Mental misstep OR Pyroclasm

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2011 - 11:45PM #5
thaprodigy58
Date Joined: Jun 28, 2010
Posts: 4
Been brainstorming what combo goes where... please help me and tell me what your thoughts are

Twin – mono white, RUG, Kudoth, Eld Green, elves?,


IT’S A Trap – Valakut, vengevine, boros, RUG (?),


Straight burn – Vamps, Cawblade. BUG, Elves, Aggro infect, B/U infect control, UW control, Pyro

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2011 - 8:51AM #6
orcishartillery
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2003
Posts: 1,259

May 3, 2011 -- 9:18PM, ShardFenix wrote:

To be honest I question the effectiveness of pyroclasm.  Would slagstorm not be the better option here?  It's cheap and deals three.  Also, can you choose different modes when playing it and copies?


If you copy Slagstorm with Pyromancer's Ascension , the copy will have the same mode as the original.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2011 - 9:26AM #7
Twilightsown
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2007
Posts: 3
With every article of yours I read, I always wonder if you have any idea about what it means to do a budget deckbuilding article. I don't want to just come on here and flame, as I hate when people do that. So I'd honestly just like to put a few questions forth.

In terms of budget, it seems you have no system like people that have come before you. It also feels like you don't check prices. In this article alone you told people to play the Splinter twin combo out of the sideboard, but Splinter Twin is now 9/10 dollars a pop due to an increase in demand for this card. Did you bother to look up prices prior to writing this article? I Edit at a Finanial website, and I know I would never let my writers talk about cards this far off base when it came to prices, but my website has different priorities than this. As far as I'm concerned though, a 9 dollar card does not fall into budget range. As someone else before me said, you'd be better off getting the fetches for the deck than getting splinter twins unless you already had them.

And this isn't the first time pricing has been an issue for your budget articles. You write about pauper on occasion, but it is very clear you don't bother to check and see how much these cards are on mtgo, the format where these are played. Many staple commons in the pauper format are 5-10 dollar cards because of limited supply and huge demand, and building a pauper deck does not immediatly make the deck a budget choice. It's become a competetive enough format that card prices are rising to meet demand and decks are becoming over what I would perceive as the threshold for a budget deck. You cannot assume that this format is cheap because its all commons, write an article and not worry about pricing. Your intended audience doesn't have the ability to dump 50-80 dollars on a deck like the pauper storm deck you built a few weeks ago. Unless I misunterstood where you were getting all of your singles from. When talking about an mtgo only format, you should stick to tix pricing, and doing a search for pauper cards will show you just how expensive they are anymore.

My other large concern is that you don't really encourage deckbuilding so much as say, "Here's a deck, give it a shot". For me, watching a deck evolve over time through trial and error was always the draw to this style of article. It taught players how to build decks instead of giving them decks to try out, and that was beneficial to players who didn't have a budget as well as those that did. You do revisit decks on occasion, but its often just to add new cards into them when a new set releases or to update the deck when the format it was in rotates. This isn't instructing anyone on how to build so much as to give them a deck and let them fumble their own way through it. Showing slow progression of a deck into a cohesive whole can help people who are new to the game to get a better understanding of how to put something together. As it stands, there is a bar to entry that your readers have to meet. They need to be able to play at a certain level to get any kind of help from this deck, and they need to be willing to copy someones 75, which I always felt wasn't the intended audience of an article like this.

As for your game analysis, you typically do somewhere between 1 and 3 games, with little to no changes to your original deck design. I could understand if your goal was to let your readers evolve the deck their own way, but you often finish with a statement like "This deck is good against such and such decks in the metagame, and therefore is a good call for your local fnm". This may be true, but most people that are reading this article probably don't have the time to test the deck themself (And would therefore benefit from a greater number of varied mathcup analysis) or don't care about playing in a competetive environment. You mash you deck up against standard top tier, and always seem to win the majority of your games. It just feels like we don't see enough trial and error and just get the all upside view of your deckbuilding.

I may be completely off base, but that's why I put up this post. I'd rather talk about what I see as the problems then get on here and rant. If I can be proven wrong, then that's fine with me. I more want to start a discussion than anything.
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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2011 - 10:50AM #8
bay_falconer
Date Joined: Oct 12, 2010
Posts: 9,710
Well, Luminarch Ascension has a lot of use. If your opponent goes for one turn without damaging you (which an infect player will gladly do), you can get a counter and then proliferate that counter over and over again. Then come the angels.

While I wouldn't call Sorin Markov "budget", since he hasn't gotten the attention Jace has, but he'll go for about $10, he combos well with Bloodchief Ascension .

By the way, Myr Galvanizer + mana Myr = infinite mana = a lot of level counters. Or just an Eldrazi.

Jun 27, 2012 -- 12:04AM, GM_Champion wrote:

Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.


----
Autocard is your friend.

[c]Lightning Bolt[/c]
= Lightning Bolt
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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2011 - 12:08PM #9
Kemev
Date Joined: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 69
"It just isn't possible to play games with cards that don't exist."

What, is your printer out of ink?
Seriously, you're the budget writer... you can play with proxies...
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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2011 - 2:24PM #10
LeoRiser
Date Joined: Oct 13, 2009
Posts: 25
I personally don't see why people seem to find a need to complain about this man's articles week after week. This is a thread for DISCUSSION, not COMPLAINING.

Does he evolve a deck constantly in a single article? No. That is for the reader to do. If you complain that he doesn't walk through the evolution of a deck, then you are displaying that you cannot do that yourself. I personally have used different versions of his decks myself, even if I had the ability to make them the same to a "T". Why? I played them, tweaked them, and often in the very process of pulling them together I would see something that I wanted to change and would do so. The essence of this column is to give a deck that you can use if you have the necessary parts and to evolve if you don't.

Yes, he uses cards that aren't cheap, but he's trying to maintain a balance between budget and power. If this column's reader base changed from the predominantly Spike-oriented tournament and FNM players to a more Johnny or Timmy appeal column then I would see reason to complain. As it is, he is trying to find reasonable alternatives to extremely expensive and powerful cards that cost MUCH more. Additionally, if you find that every deck of his is too expensive to play, then why do you play Magic in the first place? It is not an extremely cheap hobby to pick up, and if you really wanted to build a decent jag of his budget decks, then all most people would be required to do is skip out on a draft or two or abstain from their next pack-binge to buy the cards. If they wanted the deck. I'll admit that some of his decks have been too expensive before, but by and large, most aren't prohibitive, and no where does it say that you are required to make it or buy every card for it.

Also, he says that many of his readers have been sending emails involving the Splinter Exarch combo, indicating at least to him that a lot of the people who this deck would appeal to already plan on acquiring or have acquired the Splinter Twins necessary for the deck.

My argument basically boils down to one major point: you can't have your cake and eat it too. This column is one of the more Spike-oriented columns. He does his best to find the cheaper routes to a good competitive deck, but that is relative to the decks in the metagame. If you don't like reading a Spike column, then just don't read Building on a Budget in the first place and head to Mr. Styborski's amazing casual column or Mr. deCordova's hilarious Johnny column.


Now that I have ranted, I'd like to throw in my two cents on the Archive Trap combo. I use this as a sideboard combo that I find works amazingly well against multicolored decks using fetch-lands, though you always have to be a little careful to spring it just right. It is fun, though. Another sideboard option that works well is a transformative board that brings it close to a Red-Blue deck using Neurok Commando and Kiln Fiend which can be supremely fun if they board out their removal.
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