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Locked: [Archetype] UB Infect (Control and Tezz)
2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 3:24AM #1
CyrusBales
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,267


poison



Archetype UB INFECT


What is UB Infect?
Spoiler: Show


UB Infect comes in several different forms, but they all use poison as their win condition, rather than having to hit your opponent for 20 points of damage, you half the amount of damage you need. Using efficient creatures like Phyrexian Crusader, you can quickly muster enough damage.


Types of UB Infect


There are two different competitive UB infect decks, whilst they keep the same basic core of Phyrexian Crusader and Inkmoth Nexus, they do vary in the rest of their card choices and in their overall strategy. Below is a breakdown for both sub-archetypes.


UB Control-Infect
Spoiler: Show


This build uses a  control shell, but rather than using the usual Grave Titan or Wurmcoil Engine, running Infect creatures like Phyrexian Crusader, Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon, and sometimes Necropede, it doesn’t have to hit the opponent as many times in order to get the win. Along with Inkmoth Nexus, comes a small proliferation package involving Contagion Clasp, and Tumble Magnet. These cards enable control of the board, as well as the ability to clock your opponent without creatures, thanks to Contagion Clasp which also helps keep you planeswalkers healthily stocked.


Card Choices


Creatures
Spoiler: Show


Phyrexian Crusader – This is one of the best creatures I standard, and a must for all infect decks. His protection and first strike make him great in most match ups.
Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon – Reasonably unaffected by Jace’s Unsummon ability, haste and regeneration make for a mean card that can clock quickly. Since most removal allows regeneration, he becomes very difficult to deal with and often wins the turn you cast him with B mana open.
Necropede – A good little blocker who gets you great 2-for-1 value against a lot of decks, slowing up aggro to help you control the board.
Phyrexian Vatmother – Sometimes main decked, sometimes in the sideboard, this guy can take on most creatures of the same converted mana cost, but ends games quickly when turning sideways. His drawback however can sometimes be quite relevant and make him weak in match ups.


Non-Creature Permanents
Spoiler: Show


Jace Beleren – A neat card draw engine.
Contagion Clasp – It can kill of small creatures, and provides the deck with inevitability and synergises well with the rest of the deck.
Tumble Magnet – Taps down either attacks or blocker for whatever stage of the game you are in, with the Clasp, it becomes a dominating presence.
Ratchet Bomb – A good source of removal that comes down early and can be tailored to your needs, although it’s often a bad top deck.
Liliana Vess – Just like with regular UB control, Liliana Vess is a good card who can find what you need and eek out card advantage over several turns.
Sword of Feast and Famine – Some decks run this card to improve their creatures and make pushing damage through easier. However in these controlling builds, it’s often less usual.
Corrupted Conscience – More of a sideboard card, this allows the player to neuter an opposing creature whilst generating board position.  A very frightening prospect when you steal a Titan.
Spreading Seas – Once a staple of standard, now it usually sits in sideboards, ready to take away green sources or Valakuts against that particular deck.


Spells
Spoiler: Show


Inquisition of Kozilek – A great way to open the game, it tells you about your opponent’s strategy and picks a hole in their hand. Able to pick off many relevant cards within standard.
Duress - Similar to Inquisition of Kozilek, it provides knowledge and the ability to take Jace out of people’s hands. Duress is better in the late game, Inquisition in the early game.
Preordain – A helpful way to set your hand, get rid of unwanted top decks and find what you need.
Mana Leak – A very potent counterspell to control how the board shapes up.
Stoic Rebuttal – Another counterspell, this can sometimes be cheaper, but having a few hard counters make the control of the board a lot easier.
Deprive – Once again, a hard counter that is even cheaper and allows you to stop scary threats.
Into the Roil – A cantripping bounce spell that not only can remove blockers, but can mess with people’s tempo and slow them down, pushing the game longer which is a more favourable position for you.
Doom Blade – A brilliant removal spell that hits everything relevant aside from Grave Titan and Creeping Tar Pit.
Dismember - A clearly powerful removal spell.
Go For The Throat – This card fills in where Doom Blade misses, generally you won’t mind playing either, but the ability to artefact creature is more relevant than killing black creatures at present, so Doom blade is the better choice.
Black Sun’s Zenith – A great removal spell that dodges protection, whilst sorcery speed and a little slow, builds with Liliana Vess can reuse it over and over.
Consume the Meek – Excellent removal, instant speed makes it very worthwhile, and it gets around protection nicely.
Spell Pierce – A useful counterspell in control match ups, that can force through important spells.
Negate – A good counterspell, but less so these days with so many creatures, however against decks like Tezzeret, it’s excellent.
Disfigure – A cheap removal spell for smaller creatures, often more of a sideboard choice, it is very efficient for it’s cost.
Virulent Wound – Some decks use this instead of Disfigure, but the ability to hit Goblin Guides, opposing Phyrexian Crusaders and Stoneforge Mystics usually makes Disfigure the better choice.
Memoricide – Generally a sideboard card, it’s an effective way to shut down some strategies.
Flashfreeze – A useful sideboard card that gives you a cheap hard counter against some of the top decks.


Lands
Spoiler: Show


Creeping Tar Pit – It can kill Planeswalkers, as well as block and make an alternate clock if needed.
Inkmoth Nexus – A brilliant kill condition, and cheap to activate.  Always run four.
Tectonic Edge – Useful, but sometimes the colourless hurts alongside Nexus.
Darkslick Shores – Good mana fixing that helps cast early spells.
Drowned Catacomb - Good mana fixing that helps cast hasty dragons.
Island – Basics are obvious.
Swamp – Obvious again.
Marsh Flats , Scalding Tarn , Misty Rainforest , Verdant Catacomb – Fetch lands can be used to give extra shuffles which help with Jace to get better card selection.
Mystifying Maze – A potentially useful way to keep creatures at bay.


General Strategy


Since this is a control deck, you want to spend your cards wisely. Card advantage is key, and when it comes to counterspells, it’s best to use on things that will be threatening you, rather than utility spells of your opponent. A good way to think about playing the deck, is that you will win eventually, just stop your opponent from winning and worry about hitting them for ten later on.


Decklists

Brain Kibler’s, 3rd place SCG Open(Pre-Banning)
Spoiler: Show



4 Necropede
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
(10)
4 Contagion Clasp
4 Tumble Magnet
2 Jace Beleren
(10)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain
1 Deprive
1 Into The Roil
4 Mana Leak
(14)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Creeping Tar Pit
6 Swamp
4 Island
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
(26)
SIDEBOARD(15)
3 Phyrexian Vatmother
3 Disfigure
2 Doom Blade
2 Flashfreeze
1 Go For The Throat
1 Into The Roil
1 Jace Beleren
2 Duress


Matt Demarino, 4th place TCQ(Pre-Banning)
Spoiler: Show



2 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
4 Phyrexian Crusader
(6)
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tumble Magnet
1 Corrupted Conscience
(9)
4 Preordain
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Black Sun’s Zenith
1 Grim Discovery
4 Virulent Wound
4 Mana Leak
2 Into The Roil
(19)
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
 4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Island
4 Swamp
(26)
SIDEBOARD(15)
1 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Flashfreeze
3 Memoricide
2 Negate
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Vampire Hexmage





UB Tezz-Infect
Spoiler: Show



This version places far less stock in the idea of controlling the game, whilst it plays removal and discard with the odd counter, it focuses on making explosive plays thanks to Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. He can turn your two drop Necropede or Plague Myr into a two turn clock, or even your Inkmoth Nexus becomes lethal quickly. This extra potency gives the deck the ability to win on turn four, but it has enough tools to last the long game thanks to Tezzeret, Skittles and other tools.


Card Choices

Creatures
Spoiler: Show


Necropede – A great creature for taking on aggro, and becomes a monster with Tezzeret.
Plague Myr – This card allows for the tempo boost than can give you turn four wins, or just fielding Jace, The Mind Sculptor first. Also a monster with Tezzeret.
Phyrexian Crusader – This creature is too good to not run, the best infect creature available.
Skythirix, The Blight Dragon – An excellent finisher, with the ability to end games out of nowhere and dodge removal.
Phyrexian Vatmother – A useful creature who can take on aggro effectively, as well as being a fast clock off of a turn two plague myr.
Ichorclaw Myr – Another early artifact infector, however not as good as the myr or necropede.
Pilgrim’s Eye – Some builds use this guy because he can be found with Tezzeret and provide card advantage.


Non-Creature Permanents
Spoiler: Show


Jace Beleren - A nice little draw engine.
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas – Generates card advantage as well as monstrous win conditions.
Contagion Clasp – Can provide an inevitable clock, a blocker with Tezzeret if needed, as well as some removal.
Tumble Magnet – Another card that’s found with Tezzeret, and helps control the board and get hits in.
Mortarpod – Can be found with Tezzeret, helps take out small creatures as well as being a source of poison when equipped to an infect guy.
Sword of Feast and Famine – Obviously ridiculous with Phyrexian Crusader. I see this card as Tezzeret 5-7 in terms of having a way to pump my early artifact creatures into powerhouses.
Throne of Geth – It can have its uses in terms of finishing off your opponents and ramping up your planeswalkers.
Ratchet Bomb – A good source of removal, that can be found with Tezzeret.
Brittle Effigy – A great way of dealing with Titans and Wurmcoil Engines, and can be gotten by Tezzeret.
Corrupted Conscience – A fantastic way to deal with creatures on your opponent’s board, no more than 2 in your 75 cards though.


Spells
Spoiler: Show


Inquisition of Kozilek – A great way to open the game, it tells you about your opponent’s strategy and picks a hole in their hand. Able to pick off many relevant cards within standard.
Duress - Similar to Inquisition of Kozilek, it provides knowledge and the ability to take Jace out of people’s hands. Duress is better in the late game, Inquisition in the early game.
Preordain – A helpful way to set your hand, get rid of unwanted top decks and find what you need.
Deprive – Once again, a hard counter that is even cheaper and allows you to stop scary threats.
Dismember  - Good removal, but this deck is weakest to fast aggro like steel, so it's not so hot here.
Into the Roil – A cantripping bounce spell that not only can remove blockers, but can mess with people’s tempo and slow them down, pushing the game longer which is a more favourable position for you.
Doom Blade – A brilliant removal spell that hits everything relevant aside from Grave Titan and Creeping Tar Pit.
Go For The Throat – This card fills in where Doom Blade misses, generally you won’t mind playing either, but the ability to artefact creature is more relevant than killing black creatures at present, so Doom blade is the better choice.
Black Sun’s Zenith – A great removal spell that dodges protection, whilst sorcery speed and a little slow, builds with Liliana Vess can reuse it over and over.
Consume the Meek – Excellent removal, instant speed makes it very worthwhile, and it gets around protection nicely.
Mana Leak – A very potent counterspell to control how the board shapes up.
Stoic Rebuttal – Another counterspell, this can sometimes be cheaper, but having a few hard counters make the control of the board a lot easier.
Spell Pierce – A useful counterspell in control match ups, that can force through important spells.
Negate – A good counterspell, but less so these days with so many creatures, however against decks like Tezzeret, it’s excellent.
Disfigure – A cheap removal spell for smaller creatures, often more of a sideboard choice, it is very efficient for it’s cost.
Virulent Wound – Some decks use this instead of Disfigure, but the ability to hit Goblin Guides, opposing Phyrexian Crusaders and Stoneforge Mystics usually makes Disfigure the better choice.
Memoricide – Generally a sideboard card, it’s an effective way to shut down some strategies.
Flashfreeze – A useful sideboard card that gives you a cheap hard counter against some of the top decks.


Lands
Spoiler: Show

Creeping Tar Pit – It can kill Planeswalkers, as well as block and make an alternate clock if needed.
Inkmoth Nexus – A brilliant kill condition, and cheap to activate.  Always run four.
Tectonic Edge – Useful, but sometimes the colourless hurts alongside Nexus.
Darkslick Shores – Good mana fixing that helps cast early spells.
Drowned Catacomb - Good mana fixing that helps cast hasty dragons.
Island – Basics are obvious.
Swamp – Obvious again.
Marsh Flats , Scalding Tarn , Misty Rainforest , Verdant Catacomb – Fetch lands can be used to give extra shuffles which help with Jace to get better card selection.
Mystifying Maze – A potentially useful way to keep creatures at bay.


General Strategy


Ideally, you want to disrupt your opponent a little, whilst making big creatures with Tezzeret. Having swords give you extra ways to make your two drop infectors powerful, so you aren’t all in on Tezzeret. Whilst you often chip down with some of your creatures, you can often find yourself killing them in one hit, Tezzeret will almost always be making 5/5’s. When sideboarding, if you remove a lot of artifacts, it’s a good idea to drop a copy of Tezzeret as well.

Here are some useful articles about the deck:

www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/03/crucible-...
www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/02/crucible-...
www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/08/video-art...
www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/07/crucible-...


Decklists


Alexander Lapping, 11th place SCG Open(Pre-Banning)
Spoiler: Show



3 Pilgrim’s Eye
4 Necropede
4 Phyrexian Crusader
(11)
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Throne of Geth
3 Mortarpod
4 Tumble Magnet
(20)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
(4)
4 Creeping Tarpit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Island
7 Swamp
(25)
SIDEBOARD(15)
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Plague Myr
2 Doom Blade
2 Go For The Throat
4 Duress
4 Memoricide


Redzilla, 2nd place Magic League Standard Trial(pre-Banning)
Spoiler: Show


1 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
2 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Plague Myr
(11)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Tumble Magnet
2 Adventuring Gear
2 Mox Opal
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
(13)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Disfigure
3 Spell Pierce
(12)
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Swamp
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Marsh Flats
(24)
SIDEBOARD(15)
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Duress
3 Black Sun’s Zenith
2 Corrupted Conscience


Cyrus Bales’ Decklist, Undefeated at a 7 round nats Q, and piloted to 5-1-1 by another player at the same event.(Pre-banning)
Spoiler: Show


4 Necropede
4 Plague Mr
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon
(14)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
(14)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Doom Blade
(7)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Island
7 Swamp
(25)
SIDEBOARD(15)
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
3 Memoricide
1 Corrupted Conscience
3 Disfigure
3 Spell Pierce
3 Duress



Cyrus Bales' PTQ Winning Decklist (This is how the decklist currently looks)
Spoiler: Show


4 Plague Myr
4 Necropede
4 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Skittles
(14)
4 Tezz
2 Jace Beleren
3 Sword of Feast and famine
(9)
3 Ratchet Bomb
(3)
3 Doom Blade
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Despise
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
(9)
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Island
6 Swamp
(25)


SIDEBOARD(15)
3 Memoricide
3 Despise
3 Disgifure
3 Negate
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Doom Blade



Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html

For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join!

Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 8:39AM #2
Halo_Lover
Date Joined: May 21, 2009
Posts: 4,856
This looks ABSOLUTELY amazing, Cyrus.

If I may offer a little criticism, I think a section to show what possible cards from New Phyrexia can be added would be great.  Even if it is simple card choices like Despise .  I would love to see that.

Like I said, great work

EDIT:  Also, Cyrus, I'd take out the results you got from the magic-league trial.  Magic-league trials aren't good enough to show actual results since there are a lot of bad players on magic-league.  Granted, there are a lot of good players, like Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa (he barely plays on magic-league anyways) and others, but there are a lot more bad players.  Unless it is from a magic-league Master, which is 7 rounds cut to top 8, I'd leave out the trials.  Masters show better what the meta is like (6 UW Caw Blade and 2 UB Control XD).
Want to know how to keep a moron busy?  Reread this sentence to find out!
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 8:56AM #3
xBowser
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2011
Posts: 92
Its....beautiful!
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 9:07AM #4
Aiyakido
Date Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 441
looks good (and grats with National Q i see), gonna try a slightly tweeked list of what you used i think at a FNM sometime
want to link single cards or your deck? look at the spoiler
Spoiler: Show
for 1 card use [c.][/c.] (but then without the dots)

example:
[c.]cardname here[/c]

for a compleet list use [deck.][/deck.] (but then without the dots)

example:
[deck.]
lands:
# x name of land1
# x name of land2
And So On

Creatures:
# x name of creature1
# x name of creature2
And So On

Spells:
# x name of spell1
# x name of spell2
And So On

Sideboard:
# x name of sideboardcard1
# x name of sideboardcard2
And So On

[/deck.]
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 9:12AM #5
CyrusBales
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,267

Apr 26, 2011 -- 8:39AM, Halo_Lover wrote:

This looks ABSOLUTELY amazing, Cyrus.

If I may offer a little criticism, I think a section to show what possible cards from New Phyrexia can be added would be great.  Even if it is simple card choices like Despise .  I would love to see that.

Like I said, great work

EDIT:  Also, Cyrus, I'd take out the results you got from the magic-league trial.  Magic-league trials aren't good enough to show actual results since there are a lot of bad players on magic-league.  Granted, there are a lot of good players, like Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa (he barely plays on magic-league anyways) and others, but there are a lot more bad players.  Unless it is from a magic-league Master, which is 7 rounds cut to top 8, I'd leave out the trials.  Masters show better what the meta is like (6 UW Caw Blade and 2 UB Control XD).




Thanks Halo, I thought it was a curious list, which is why I posted it up here. In terms of NPH cards, I wanted to start a bit of discussion first, so it doesn't seem like I'm trying to dictate what is good to people etc.

For me, the playables for this deck:

Praetors Grip - Possibly a good card to steal Jaces with in control match ups.
Corrupted Resolve - Basically counterspell here, replaces Stoic Rebuttal as the 2-3 of hard counter.
Tezzeret's Gambit - A draw spell that poisons and pumps walkers.
Torpor ORb - Fantastic SB card for a lot of decks, possibly MD in the Tezz builds eve.
Mental Misstep - THe deck is blue, so we'll see if this becomes needed.
Life' Finale - Could be a better replacement for some of the mass removal, since you don't run that much mass removal anyway, and this weakens their draws and stops them from drawing the good ol Sun Titan after you sweep them.
Phyrexia Metamorph - Good in tezz infect, a 5/5 crusader is nice, also he is versatile.
Despise - Another one drop discard, can be used in conjunction with others to make the best 75.
Geth's Verdict - Removal spells are still removal spells, this is quite a good one, even though the life is irrellevant, the BB cost is probably the only reason it won't get played here.

Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html

For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join!

Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 9:57AM #6
Lorrdian_Jedi
Date Joined: Aug 28, 2009
Posts: 732
I know alot of people don't like it, but I really think that Caress of Phyrexia could have a possible place in this deck. It can serve as card draw or a finisher. Possible 2-3 of

Yes it's expensive, yes it's a little clunky. But...how many times have we had our opponent to 7+ poison counters and not been able to seal the deal. With something like this, we could possibly sit back and play defense if we need to, until the coast is clear, and then win.

We proliferate, but at what cost? If we are concerned only about poison counters then CoPhy (Which I hereby dub Coffee...and yes I know it's phi not phee...sue me 8P) would actually be a mana advantage (3 proliferates=12-5 for CoPhy)
"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 12:18PM #7
Halo_Lover
Date Joined: May 21, 2009
Posts: 4,856

Apr 26, 2011 -- 9:59AM, xBowser wrote:

Cyrus how can you forget about surgical extraction? That card can be a 4 of in any color deck and personally i think its gonna get run in 90% of control decks when NPH comes out




It isn't nearly as good as you think.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 12:56PM #8
xBowser
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2011
Posts: 92
Turn one duress, I'll pick jtms and pay 2 life and get rid of the rest! Maybe it's just me who thinks this card is amazing :/
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 1:10PM #9
Lorrdian_Jedi
Date Joined: Aug 28, 2009
Posts: 732

Apr 26, 2011 -- 12:58PM, Lorrdian_Jedi wrote:

Apr 26, 2011 -- 12:56PM, xBowser wrote:

Turn one duress, I'll pick jtms and pay 2 life and get rid of the rest! Maybe it's just me who thinks this card is amazing :/




Thanks, you just got 2-1'd. Also that's a horrible play. They can't even cast jace until they get 4 mana. If your going to use it, wait at least until turn 3 or so. This way they can possibly draw one, and you can hand-rape them a little more. I know the meta is pretty established, but you don't always know what the most relavant threat in the deck is.


In caw blade, I'd rather they tap out for a hawk, tutor them up, then kill it and play SE, Much more value imo, as there hand size just dropped by 3.


The problem, and this has been said in other threads, is that Surgical extraction is inherent card disadvantage. In order to get of the Jace, you had to play duress. To get the rest you paid 2 life (minor cost) and another card. This is inherent card disadvantage. The cards in your deck are not seen or counted as a threat in most situations. Basically, in order for Extraction to work, it has to combo with something else. Even if you see cards in the library as threats, the best you have just done is 1-2'd yourself. What if an opponent isn't running a full 4? then it's a 1-1.5 etc, whatever else.

It is a decent sideboard card, but to be honest I would rather play memoricide because that way I can use 1 card to possibly hit all 4 threats.

Others have stated that bad players will absolutely love this card, and good players will think it's meh but stick it in a SB. It is what it is, but....

(mindtrick)This is not the bomb your looking for /mindtrick




"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2011 - 2:36PM #10
Azotaka
Date Joined: Mar 31, 2011
Posts: 58

Apr 26, 2011 -- 1:10PM, Lorrdian_Jedi wrote:

Apr 26, 2011 -- 12:58PM, Lorrdian_Jedi wrote:

Apr 26, 2011 -- 12:56PM, xBowser wrote:

Turn one duress, I'll pick jtms and pay 2 life and get rid of the rest! Maybe it's just me who thinks this card is amazing :/




Thanks, you just got 2-1'd. Also that's a horrible play. They can't even cast jace until they get 4 mana. If your going to use it, wait at least until turn 3 or so. This way they can possibly draw one, and you can hand-rape them a little more. I know the meta is pretty established, but you don't always know what the most relavant threat in the deck is.


In caw blade, I'd rather they tap out for a hawk, tutor them up, then kill it and play SE, Much more value imo, as there hand size just dropped by 3.


The problem, and this has been said in other threads, is that Surgical extraction is inherent card disadvantage. In order to get of the Jace, you had to play duress. To get the rest you paid 2 life (minor cost) and another card. This is inherent card disadvantage. The cards in your deck are not seen or counted as a threat in most situations. Basically, in order for Extraction to work, it has to combo with something else. Even if you see cards in the library as threats, the best you have just done is 1-2'd yourself. What if an opponent isn't running a full 4? then it's a 1-1.5 etc, whatever else.

It is a decent sideboard card, but to be honest I would rather play memoricide because that way I can use 1 card to possibly hit all 4 threats.

Others have stated that bad players will absolutely love this card, and good players will think it's meh but stick it in a SB. It is what it is, but....

(mindtrick)This is not the bomb your looking for /mindtrick







Oh come now... That was a bit harsh. I also must say I disagree with you a bit on the value of the card. So, you rather waste 4 mana and potentially a turn to have your memoricide countered instead of deal with it quickly and efficiently? I don't see the point. While I agree I may use it a bit later than turn 1, I would use it. It's simply efficient. I find hand searching a little less valuable than removal. I would NOT waste removal on a hawk and SE for a grand total of (usually) 3 mana. I lose some board control...

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