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Apr 7, 2011 -- 4:41PM, Fox_Ninja wrote:

What are everyones thoughts on norn's annex? I think it looks really strong for control

RDW already doesn't care about it's own life total, and it's casting cost renders it pointless in any format except limited.

Apr 7, 2011 -- 5:57AM, the_rooster wrote:

Apr 7, 2011 -- 4:44AM, AlienFinger79 wrote:

@the Fresh Meat discussion: Imagine this:

You're a green-based aggro deck. You play big, mean 1-, 2- and 3-drops. Your opponent removes your 2-drop. He then starts playing stuff like Stoneforge Mystic and a Hawk, filling up his hand.

If you hold back mana for Fresh Meat for very long, you'll lose to a SoFaF. If you instead spend your mana building up enough of a board to combat him, or basically do anything else from removal to disruption to anything else at all, he'll Wrath without needing to fear Fresh Meat.

Both options suck. That's why you'd much rather play a card that he can't just play around like that.

Because I can never have more than 4 mana but he'll have 10 right?

If I can respond to his day with meat for even 3 guys, I'm way ahead and he's in trouble.  Meat doesn't need to be "LOL 7 guys!" blowout to be a game winer.  9 Hasty damage on turn 6 or so when your opponent just wiped his own board is pretty huge.

But that's not the point, anyways.  It's not about blowing opponent's out, it's about making their sweepers not reset the board.  When you get them into a spot where they need to, and you can make day not wipe the board, you probably win.  This is why  timely monument can be so good.  The problem is, they can easily play around monument: Leak, untap, Day.  But with this being an instant, they can day, swing with gideon, then EoT you drop 9-15 power and it's pretty hard for them to do anything.  

I was just giving a realistic scenario.

In the scenario, he doesn't need 10 mana, nor do you need to have only four. My point was simply that he had total freedom to play whatever he wanted - or play around whatever he wanted - while you *have* to always hold four mana up for as long as you fear a sweeper, which puts you at a considerable disadvantage.

So, yeah, even if you have 6 mana, you can only use two of them to combat him in fear of a sweeper. He has full access to all of his resources. If that sounds worth the potential sweeps recovery, then go ahead.

Compare this, though, to Tuktuk the Explorer, where - for one mana less - you get a 1/1 until they sweep and you get to hold all of your resources open to keep him off his game or build up your own. In return, you *only* get a hasty 5/5 when he Wraths and the opponent knows that he has to play around it - and as for the opponent knowing, he'd know if you keep four mana open in an aggro deck - especially if you do it for more than one turn in a row.

Tuktuk hardly sees play as a Wrath deterrent.

I'd never, ever, play Fresh Meat as a Wrath deterrent.

Apr 8, 2011 -- 4:14AM, AlienFinger79 wrote:

Apr 7, 2011 -- 5:57AM, the_rooster wrote:

Apr 7, 2011 -- 4:44AM, AlienFinger79 wrote:

@the Fresh Meat discussion: Imagine this:

You're a green-based aggro deck. You play big, mean 1-, 2- and 3-drops. Your opponent removes your 2-drop. He then starts playing stuff like Stoneforge Mystic and a Hawk, filling up his hand.

If you hold back mana for Fresh Meat for very long, you'll lose to a SoFaF. If you instead spend your mana building up enough of a board to combat him, or basically do anything else from removal to disruption to anything else at all, he'll Wrath without needing to fear Fresh Meat.

Both options suck. That's why you'd much rather play a card that he can't just play around like that.

Because I can never have more than 4 mana but he'll have 10 right?

If I can respond to his day with meat for even 3 guys, I'm way ahead and he's in trouble.  Meat doesn't need to be "LOL 7 guys!" blowout to be a game winer.  9 Hasty damage on turn 6 or so when your opponent just wiped his own board is pretty huge.

But that's not the point, anyways.  It's not about blowing opponent's out, it's about making their sweepers not reset the board.  When you get them into a spot where they need to, and you can make day not wipe the board, you probably win.  This is why  timely monument can be so good.  The problem is, they can easily play around monument: Leak, untap, Day.  But with this being an instant, they can day, swing with gideon, then EoT you drop 9-15 power and it's pretty hard for them to do anything.  

I was just giving a realistic scenario.

In the scenario, he doesn't need 10 mana, nor do you need to have only four. My point was simply that he had total freedom to play whatever he wanted - or play around whatever he wanted - while you *have* to always hold four mana up for as long as you fear a sweeper, which puts you at a considerable disadvantage.

So, yeah, even if you have 6 mana, you can only use two of them to combat him in fear of a sweeper. He has full access to all of his resources. If that sounds worth the potential sweeps recovery, then go ahead.

It does because if my opponent is going to sweep, he won't day mt 2 guys (unless he HAS to).  He'll day when I have a commanding board presence.  Once I do, I'm not using my mana to play guys anyways because I don't want to overcommit.  To me it's a little like holding Ranger of Eos in old boros so if they wrath you can auto-recover.  The only real difference (which makes this slightly worse than ranger) is that it does nothing on it's own.  Then again, ranger typically only fetched some 1/1s (who might be 2/1s for a turn) whereas this makes 3/3s.