I just finished a Legacy FFA (online) against 5 others, using my Jund X deck. (below) The people there invited me to the table, knowing full well I have a tendency to play very aggressively.
T1: Forest, suspend Search for Tomorrow T2: draw Breath of Malfegor, played Mountain, Rampant Growth for a Swamp T3: Search resolves for a Forest, draw Blood Tithe, play another Swamp, Breath of Malfegor T4: draw Exsanguinate, played Mountain, Rampant Growth for another Forest, Blood Tithe
etc. You get the picture.
All 5 of these players simply let me ramp & drain & draw cards turn after turn. And got more and more upset, and called me viler & viler names, as each turn passed. I just smiled & played. I won with an Earthquake & Hurricane on T7.
Do I feel bad? No. Not one person even tried to stop me until T5. I've played this deck a few times, and it's won almost every time. Mainly because no one tries to stop me!
I've lost with it, too. But (IMO) only because I was the only non-blue player at the table. When you're sitting against 3 to 5 blue (U/W, U/B, U/G, etc included) decks, it just fails. But then, so would most decks that show they need to be dealt with "right now".
Is it cheesy & brainless? Yes. It took me all of 3 minutes to put it together. I simply looked for cards that dealt with "each opponent" and "each player" in the most aggressive way, threw them together with pretty reliable ramp & draw, and presto. It's the equivalent of watching Saturday morning cartoons, or reading a comic book, as far as skills or brainpower goes. And just as fun.
Will I play it again? More than likely. Is it the only deck I'll play in FFA? No way. Variety is the spice of life.
It's out there, folks. Just like every other "horrible broken" card. People will play it. Deal with it or go play something else.
Jund X
4 Creatures 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
32 Other Spells 4 Blood Tithe 2 Breath of Malfegor 2 Earthquake 4 Exsanguinate 3 Harmonize 2 Hurricane 4 Rampant Growth 4 Search for Tomorrow 3 Syphon Mind 4 Syphon Soul
So I've been reading this thread and the thought has occurred to me that even though I have yet to drop Exanguinate on my metagame (no one else has played it, yet), and it would be very effective, it would actually wreck the type of play my group has. It was originally planned as the killer for my Lich-themed Emperor's deck. I think I'll take it out.
I've made a few changes as a result. If you wish to comment on the new decklist, I'd be happy for feedback, I think I have a good powered-down replacement to keep me at a competitive level. Great discussion on a great card.
I think the vast majority of you should be ashamed of yourselves. That you are banning rather than adapting is, IMO, pathetic. The worst comment off the top of my head was someone claiming that "all good drain decks run Boseiju and that they didn't want to run land destruction because it invalidates other 'fun' lands." WTF are you talking about? Protect yourself, wreck the plans of others, PLAY MAGIC.
I was going to leave this alone, let the scrubs be scrubs...but than this post forced me to say something:
So I've been reading this thread and the thought has occurred to me that even though I have yet to drop Exanguinate on my metagame (no one else has played it, yet), and it would be very effective, it would actually wreck the type of play my group has. It was originally planned as the killer for my Lich-themed Emperor's deck. I think I'll take it out.
I've made a few changes as a result. If you wish to comment on the new decklist, I'd be happy for feedback, I think I have a good powered-down replacement to keep me at a competitive level. Great discussion on a great card.
No sir. This was not great discussion. It was a bunch of babies coddling each other. I am sad that you have chosen to water down your deck rather than help both you and your opponent become better players.
There is a difference between "good" and "broken." There is a difference between format warping and format breaking.
Exsanguinate is a good card, just like Gen Wave, the Aeons Torn, etc.. If you can't handle a single card or the cards that support it, you are bad and deserve to lose.
Look at Blippy's example, YOU are the other people in that game. Rather than do something, you complain and ban. Rather than get better, you rain on other people's parades.
Destroy lands. Use discard effects. Run counterspells. Heck, rock a Memoricide or two naming Exsanguinate. Make them pay for how they win. Do not whine and cry until people bend to your will.
I think the vast majority of you should be ashamed of yourselves. That you are banning rather than adapting is, IMO, pathetic. The worst comment off the top of my head was someone claiming that "all good drain decks run Boseiju and that they didn't want to run land destruction because it invalidates other 'fun' lands." WTF are you talking about? Protect yourself, wreck the plans of others, PLAY MAGIC.
I was going to leave this alone, let the scrubs be scrubs...but than this post forced me to say something:
So I've been reading this thread and the thought has occurred to me that even though I have yet to drop Exanguinate on my metagame (no one else has played it, yet), and it would be very effective, it would actually wreck the type of play my group has. It was originally planned as the killer for my Lich-themed Emperor's deck. I think I'll take it out.
I've made a few changes as a result. If you wish to comment on the new decklist, I'd be happy for feedback, I think I have a good powered-down replacement to keep me at a competitive level. Great discussion on a great card.
No sir. This was not great discussion. It was a bunch of babies coddling each other. I am sad that you have chosen to water down your deck rather than help both you and your opponent become better players.
There is a difference between "good" and "broken." There is a difference between format warping and format breaking.
Exsanguinate is a good card, just like Gen Wave, the Aeons Torn, etc.. If you can't handle a single card or the cards that support it, you are bad and deserve to lose.
Look at Blippy's example, YOU are the other people in that game. Rather than do something, you complain and ban. Rather than get better, you rain on other people's parades.
Destroy lands. Use discard effects. Run counterspells. Heck, rock a Memoricide or two naming Exsanguinate. Make them pay for how they win. Do not whine and cry until people bend to your will.
I am ashamed of you.
Sorry, but I found your comment somewhat irrelevant, a sort of verbal self-massage session. Look, the truth is that hordes of local, casual metagames have banned lists, "gentlemen's agreements", or other ways of tabulating cards that are "un-fun". So a discussion of this type is relevant, regardless of your "burn the gates down" reply. If you really want to light people on fire, go play on the constructed format forums, hmm?
I second Elder_Kraken's opinion. And the code of conduct forces me to keep it at that.
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
I think the vast majority of you should be ashamed of yourselves. That you are banning rather than adapting is, IMO, pathetic. The worst comment off the top of my head was someone claiming that "all good drain decks run Boseiju and that they didn't want to run land destruction because it invalidates other 'fun' lands." WTF are you talking about? Protect yourself, wreck the plans of others, PLAY MAGIC.
I am ashamed of you.
While I do not have this much fevor, I do agree, people in mp need to stop trying to build decks assuming its purely casual. I'm not here to see how you came up with a deck. If you think your deck is awesome, make it happen. I have built tons of MP deck in the past 12 years and when they don't work because they are too slow, I find ways to make them faster or try a new deck.
Platinum angel with a diplomatic immunity has a shocking way of just destroying your opponents hopes and it isn't anything that crazy, nor does it really have to be built around.
In other news, I love that multiplayer jund deck LOL.
Sorry, but I found your comment somewhat irrelevant, a sort of verbal self-massage session. Look, the truth is that hordes of local, casual metagames have banned lists, "gentlemen's agreements", or other ways of tabulating cards that are "un-fun". So a discussion of this type is relevant, regardless of your "burn the gates down" reply. If you really want to light people on fire, go play on the constructed format forums, hmm?
While he is quite vocal he is right. If we were talking about someone dropping a turn 1 power artifact into a grim monolith, into a fireball, I can see the issue with needing to have an intervention with your players, create a banned list, and so forth.
There already are rules in place in which can help groups. Sphere of influences for example is a great way to go. If you don't want global effects running rampant, then rein in the spheres of influence.
You can also allow unlimited sideboards. So between games should someone want to switch out something maybe a False Cure go for it.
But to just assume every player has to have a slow deck that plays to the needs of everyone else at the table is petty and selfish. When I play my crazy decks at my group, they adapt or just gang up on me. Why is it your group doesn't do the same?
But to just assume every player has to have a slow deck that plays to the needs of everyone else at the table is petty and selfish. When I play my crazy decks at my group, they adapt or just gang up on me. Why is it your group doesn't do the same?
I'm sorry, I don't really remember actually stating why I removed it or that I expected everyone to play a slow deck so you're pretty quick to judge someone you don't even know. Yeah, the relative power level is one thing, but it's not the only reason. And folks do gang up on me already since I tend to play the strongest decks in the group. If I add too much muscle to where they really have no choice other than team against me in every game, I've really defeated the purpose of getting together. I hate it when people feel they have to keep someone from winning instead of playing to win themselves. I do adjust to those strategies, but that tends just to put me even more ahead of my table-mates. Go to far, and even my friends will decide to un-invite me to gatherings if I rob them of any enjoyment. Sorry, I don't get that "into it" that I have win every game, so long as I enjoy the ride.
Having said that, if I moved to a different group (unlikely since I've played with these guys for close to two decades and grew up with them, for heck's sake), I would remake many decks to bring them up to the relative level present in that group.
In a FFA deck, I would have no problem running Exsanguinate. After all, it's FFA, every man for themselves, and I'm keeping my playset in case I develop it into a true FFA deck. For the deck I had it slated for, though, I'm the Emperor buffered from direct assault. Between that and a tricked out Dralnu, Lich Lord with Tsabo's Decree , there's really no chance for the other side, and that to me is boring. Yeah, I'm powering it down...so what?! What's the big **** deal?
The other reason for taking it out? I think it's much more intriguing to play Emperor's with the goal of decking one of the wings and then decking the opposing Emperor instead of doing boring uber-drains, which is admittedly far more likely and reliable. How cool is running two guys out of cards, one after the other? Whatever gives you the kicks and giggles and gives the other sides fun trying to stop, you know? So it's a knife fight instead of howitzers...again, so **** what?
Sorry if I seem a little peevish over this, but I'm kind of sick of people assuming I'm a backward *** for not going Spike in every deck I make. I have spike tendencies, but I'm really much more a Timmy/Johnny, and a casual one at that. I thought this was casual forums and it's not automatically assumed I'm a spike****? (and for the record, the **** are all placed by me, there was no editing by the system). Cheers.
"If I go 'too far' my friends will uninvite me..."
and...
"It's unlikely I move to another group, I've been playing with them for 20 years..."
Seem awkward.
So...you've known them for a long time, they're your friends...but losing to some decent cards would oust you from the group?
Yeah...
Also, Emperor is a pretty bad format IMO.
Best Multiplayer format I've found so far is between FFA and Star. Emperor CAN get annoying with optimized decks but that's becase Magic wasn't built for that kind of thing.
Please note that, while I quoted your post in my initial reply, the "You" is the metaphorical one, AKA, I was speaking to anyone up to and including the OP who would resort to banning a card rather than adapting.
The vast majority of Magic players run with some sort of agreement, whether it is basic like only playing Standard/Extended/Legacy or only playing FFA or Star or Commander or "anything but the power-9." I know someone who will walk away from an opponent playing a "combo" deck (ridiculous, where does the line stop?) or a "net-deck" (I built proto-Affinity as my first deck without knowing anything about Magic from a friends box of Mirrodin Commons/Uncommons, how was I to know?).
Where do you draw the line?
Someone has to win the game (whether it's a team or not) which generally means a card is going to do that. Who decides?
Yes, you do...yes, they do. Everyone has a right to play or not play...I can't do anything to anyone except play and try to be as fair as possible to myself and my opponents and hope they do the same. Every vote matters so think long and hard about what kind of play environment you're setting up. One that builds good players...or one that allows people to stagnate.
I try to help the people around me get better, that way, even when they lose they are mature about it to learn effectively from it...and when they win they can take pride in it. I have friends who've never played a sanctioned match in their life and they never plan on it...but because of how I maintain my playgroup I know they'd be just fine with whatever deck they made wherever they went because I force them to play tight, think hard and build smart...or lose.
