Capitan_Estaban, you're right that I never specified Vintage/Legacy restrictions (and, in some cases , that can be an issue). So, for clarification, if it's not on the banned list, it's allowed. Also, all ante cards are banned (an oversight to begin with) as is Library of Alexandra (with card draw outside of cantrips scarce enough as is, a colorless source that can draw obscene amounts of cards over the course of a game just doesn't belong in the format).
(Note:Bolding mine) You might need to clarify that further. The Vintage List has a (mostly Ante)banned/restricted(too powerful) list, and the Legacy List has a banned list. So, which banned list are you talking about, or do you mean both? And by allowed, do you mean 4x copies? This only matters for a handful of cards... Goblin Recruiter (Legacy Banned) Hermit Druid (Legacy Banned) Worldgorger Dragon - (Legacy Banned) Bazaar of Baghdad - (Legacy Banned) Mishra's Workshop - (Legacy Banned) Strip Mine - (Legacy Banned/Vintage Restricted) Tolarian Academy - (Legacy Banned/Vintage Restricted)
Librarary of Alexandria - Which you have already noted is banned for the contest. Tempest Efreet /Timmerian Fiends - Ante cards, already noted as banned for the contest. As for my thoughts on the above cards, some of them might not be so bad to allow in this contest, but others might still be a problem. Goblin Recruiter to my knowledge is on the list because the ability to kill your opponents after stacking your deck with him and using Greater Good /Fecundity to draw out your deck and swing with hasty goblins (or Goblin Charbelcher ? Accelerated with Brightstone Ritual /Skirk Prospector ). Most of those cards being artifacts/enchantments/sorcery aren't allowed in the contest anyway so don't apply. Also, it might be difficult to kill multiple opponents (40-80 damage on average for my MP games) using goblins. Hermit Druid /Bazaar of Baghdad are both on the list to combat Dredge decks to my knowledge. The key cards in that is Nacromoeba and Bridge from Below (already banned for type). The deck used lots of spells like Breakthrough and Dredge creatures do dump its entire library into the graveyard and swing with 10 2/2 hasty zombies. I have seen a Dredge deck win in MP, but with many of the key cards illegal because of type, it might not be enough to worry about (although Hermit Druid +Narcomoeba +Phyrexian Plaguelord (or some other creature sac outlet) seems like a pretty good combo (no need to sac Phyrexian Plaguelord to give a creature -4/-4). You just need a Legendary Eldrazi to prevent decking, or Jötun Grunt will allow you to stack your deck).
Mishra's Workshop /Tolarian Academy - These cards work wonders with Artifact Lands, and Metalworker (as can be seen from my Tax-Affinity deck). I believe that Mishra's Workshop, Metalworker, WGD, and several other cards were unrestricted from Vintage to combat Time Vault decks. They still are very powerful cards, and in my opinion they should be banned/restricted for this contest. A turn 1 Mishra's Workshop+Metalworker means that turn 2 I am getting some Lodestone Golem s into play and putting everyone else back a couple of turns, or I am casting an Eldrazi, or Platinum Emperion , etc. Once again, I don't mind if this invalidates a deck I submitted. Breaking formats is fun.
For that matter, would Gaea's Cradle be overpowered in this format (with only creatures and lands), or would its usage be balanced against so many other players using it + the fact that it's legendary? I'm inclined to think the latter (it's poularity would actually make it a pretty risky liability).
Gaea's Cradle has been a bane to Casual tables everywhere. It never got the ban/restriction in tournaments because creatures are harder to get on the board (and keep on the board) than 0 mana artifacts. As for how risky it might be, that depends upon the number of other players to use it (or Vesuva ) in their decks. I think I am probably with you. The card leans towards being a liability, but I personally could see someone running deck shells/skeletons... SaprolingsShow
I just have to say, putting a format together from scratch is far harder than I ever gave it credit. Capitan_Estaban already broke the format once (and may have done so a second time). In an atempt to balance the format, I banned some cards needlessly while leaving others free to run rampant. I have a newfound respect for people who do this on a much grander scheme.
It is quite difficult to foresee complications. Just going off the B/R lists to decide what is broken doesn't work perfectly either, as many MP tables are aware (Limited Resources anyone?). Luckily, you caught most of the most annoying ones. The Tabernacle goes against the spirit of the format, as does Maze of Ith, etc. The things you really need to watch for are there enough creatures that can deal with problem lands that might break the format (Detritivore , Dwarven Blastminer /Dwarven Miner , Helldozer ), and are their enough lands/creatures that deal with problem creatures (Indestructible creatures, Shroud, protection from everything, Iona). I think there are, Mistmeadow Witch , Faceless Butcher , Man-o'-War , Avenger en-Dal , ...
I would be worried about creature tutors, Imperial Recruiter (esp), Transmute, etc. Many if not most of the decks are using some form of creature tutors. Land Tutors, because the format only allows lands/creatures. And finally fast mana (Mishra's Workshop , Tolarian Academy , Gaea's Cradle , I wouldn't worry about Serra's Scantum ...(wait a minute, that gives me an idea for a deck)).
Perhaps for the next contest, come up with a rough sketch of the contest deck requirements about a week before accepting deck submissions. Within that week, let people come up with critiques about which cards should/should not be banned, etc.
Budget EDH:EDH on $20 a Deck. Join the Group Link has been defeated(X times) by Eyegorc in Dungeons 2(2x), 3(3x), and 6(3x).
The deck has been edited down to 60. The concept is simple. Find Jhoria (12x copies with the 8x tutors), and then start suspending big fatties. I like how Spinerock Knoll works well with the fatties, (the bounce land lets you reuse it). The Unblockable fattie is great, and gets you close to hitting 7 damage for Spinerock Knoll, and the fact that you can suspend your 6/6 unblockable with 9 counters even if you don't have the combo is great. Aeon Chronicler gets you drawing 4 cards for 2 mana with Jhoria, which is nice.
For the Eldrazi, I couldn't decide whether it is better running 2x legendaries, or mostly graveyard recursion Eldrazi (doesn't work so well with your graveyard shuffled away), or I get your stuff Eldrazi It that Betrays . I added Clone type creatures to the deck to at least be on par with whomever cast the biggest creature at the moment (or to copy my own fatties if no one does have anything good).
Budget EDH:EDH on $20 a Deck. Join the Group Link has been defeated(X times) by Eyegorc in Dungeons 2(2x), 3(3x), and 6(3x).
The library of cards stored in my head isn't nearly as big as some of you guys, so feel free to recommend any upgrades to this deck.
The key combo is Lighthouse Chronologist and Sphinx Sovereign , which can drain any number of opponents at a rate that actually increases with more opponents around.
Most of the other cards are picked to get those two on the battlefield and leveled up as soon as possible, so to that end we have tutors:
Ignoring the tragically non-artifact Lighthouse Chronologist, the Master Transmuter runs defense against targeted removal, pulls of combat tricks via block/bounce, and reactivates comes-into-play effects, tutoring, reviving, etc.
Land, I went with blue primary, black secondary, and white tertiary because of the slight bias towards black among the tutors.
Not sure how to get pure blue mana acceleration without something like Tolarian Academy . Between these and the twelve Myr it should be able to hard-cast sphinxes quickly enough even if everything else falls through.
Notable weaknesses include complete lack of removal, a nauseating mana curve, and a very weak early game defensive line.
On the plus side, the sphinxes are immune to almost all removal that comes from creatures. They're all black, so all Terror s and Doom Blade s on a stick are out. Master Transmuter can intercept or reverse a bounce attempt. Sphinx of the Steel Wind is practically unkillable anyway.
SirCurry, I like the synergy this deck has (and, in some cases, dissynergy . I think that it would benefit from a single Vampire Hexmage to work in conjunction with your Dark Depths .
Also, both Ice Floe and Maze of Ith are banned in the format. As soon as you replace those I'll add you to the list of entries.
Not an official deck submission, but I just thought it was a funny way to abuse Soul Sculptor . The first half is just setup for lots of mana, saproling beatdown with tokens, the second part is the Soul Sculptor combo. You can use Soul Sculptor defensively in response to removal of your own creatures or to "remove an attacker". The combo goes nuts with Seedborn Muse, and Kamahl lets you destroy their land too. Femeref Enchantress would be an amusing way to draw cards. Stupid Enchantment Tricks UW (deck Skeleton) 4xSoltari Visionary 4xSoul Sculptor - perhaps with Aura Thief +Phantatog 1xDevout Witness
4xStronghold Biologist - Murkfiend Liege +Enigma Eidolon in a different deck perhaps? 4xEnigma Eidolon 4xAurora Eidolon Here is a UW version (I don't think it is as good). It uses Soul Sculptor to control creatures that you are worried (can't be blocked by Wall of Denial), and disenchants them with shadowy Soltari Visionary. If you really don't want the creature to hit the board, Stronghold Biologist seems good for this format (although the Eidolon+Sawtooth Lion doesn't seem that strong.
Everything in the deck is searchable via Imperial Recruiter . The deck locks down combat nearly completely for everyone else, then you turn your own Peacekeeper / Hokori, Dust Drinker into an enchantment with no abilities at the guy to your rights EOT (as long as no one has flash creatures you get to untap and attack).
Oracle en-Vec makes opponents have to guess whether you have peacekeeper in hand, or with Soul Sculptor active they might not be able to declare a creature as an attacker (unless they have flash creatures again). Windborn Muse +Hokori, Dust Drinker locks down attacks against you, and Blinding Angel locks them down from attacks period.
Sorry about my spotty presence over the last couple of days. I moved back to college after winter break (yesterday) and only just now got my internet working, but have to leave in a few minutes (its my girlfriend's birthday and I'm going out with her and her parents).
I just wanted to quickly say that you're right, Capitan_Estaben. I'll start the discussion for the next contest (on the overarching topic for these deckbuilding series) when the deck submissions for this contest ends so that the banned list for it can be discussed in detail prior to the contest actually beginning. This contest has certainly shown that it takes more than one person to think through all the angles of the format.
So the current schedule for these contests is essentially going to be:
Week 1: Deck submissions / Final Rankings for previous contest posted.
Week 2: Deck Ranking Submissions / banned list discussion for next contest (in main contest thread)
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.
I don't think that afinity + Metalworker by itself will break the format, so they're all safe.
I will update the official deck submission list later today (I'm currently on a Mac, so copy/paste is a difficult and frustrating process for me at the moment). I'll add Capitan_Estaban's new deck, Minus Prime's, SirCurry's revision and ArtVenn's decks. I believe that that's all that needs to be changed as of now.
Also, I've noticed that some people like putting choice A and/or choice B for card slots in their submissions (ArtVenn's the biggest offender here). Please don't do this any more. Adding this variability to deck lists makes it harder to evaluate them along with other submissions (especially when you add this variability to several different slots). Each deck submissions should be concrete in its exact contents.
Tolarian Academy and Mishra's Workshop are banned. They provide far too much acceleration to affinity-esque decks and far too easily enable broken gameplay. Banned courtesy ofCapitan_Estaban breaking the format.
Library of Alexandria is banned. In a format where even blue has trouble getting more than a cantrip, a colorless source that's basically a painless Phyrexian Arena that you can also choose to tap for mana is overpowered.
Llawan, Cephalid Empress is banned. This plus Painter's Servant is too fast, consistant and difficult to combat in this format. Banned courtesy of Capitan_Estaban breaking the format.
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.
