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3 years ago ::
Oct 04, 2010 - 8:21AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2002
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Safe Passage  does not have any targets. Yes, Pillory of the Sleepless  can be shunted when cast, because the rules say aura spells target. Concerted Effort  gives creatures flying during the upkeep, long after the creature enters the battlefield. Why is my concerted effort card tag doing that?
All Generalizations are Bad
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3 years ago ::
Oct 04, 2010 - 8:24AM
#12
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I disagree on it being less intuitive. The rules state that [...]
Players who havn't been exposed to the rules as much will often think that "target" is a synonym of "choose", which it isn't. Because they make that association, they view it as unintuitive when they encounter a choice that is unrelated to targeting.
Its not so much that I haven't been exposed to the rules, as I haven't been exposed to the NEW rules. I got back into magic about 3 months ago. Before that the sets I had bought the most card for were 4th Edition and Ice Age, when they were new. I've got an Ice Age rule book right here and its glossary entry for target says its anything at which a spell is aimed. I mostly don't realize rules have changed until I get a new card that seems either TOO powerful (which is a lot of them compared to the old days) or I see something on the gatherer comments when I'm browsing cards.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 04, 2010 - 8:27AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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One last question based on something that happened the other night, then I promise I'm done. :p
My friend had Archon of Redemption and Concerted Effort out and played a Phyrexian Colossus. He thought he should get 8 life because Concerted Effort makes the Colossus a flying creature. I said no, because the Archon says you get life "whenever another creature with flying enters the battlefield" and Concerted Effort wouldn't give a creature flying until after it was already ON the battlefield, too late to trigger the Archon's ability. Needless to say an arguement insued and I ended up telling him he could have it this time but I'd look this up so we'd be sure on the rules next week. So, was I right?
Concerted Effort
Archon of Redemption 
Phyrexian Colossus 
Nope, you were wrong :P. Concerted Effort has a static ability. That kind of ability is always in effect, and a creature that enters the battlefield (as long as it fits the criteria of the effect) is never on the battlefield without being affected. It doesn't enter the battlefield, then become affected; it enters the battlefield affected. Your friend could indeed gain 8 life in your example.
EDIT : Oops, didn't read Concerted Effort and assumed its ability was static. Your friend could not gain 8 life here because the Colossus could not have flying. Concerted Effort's ability affects only the creatures that are already on the battlefield at the upkeep. It doesn't apply to creatures that enter later that same turn. If your friend controlled Levitation  instead, my previous explanation would be what you need to look at, though.
As an aside, please use card tags for future questions, it helps us answer faster and better. [c]Concerted Effort[/c] gives you Concerted Effort . I would not have made that mistake if I could have read Concerted Effort before writing without opening Gatherer.
 Magic The Gathering DCI Rules Advisor Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
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3 years ago ::
Oct 04, 2010 - 8:29AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2002
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Nope, you were wrong :P. Concerted Effort has a static ability. That kind of ability is always in effect, and a creature that enters the battlefield (as long as it fits the criteria of the effect) is never on the battlefield without being affected. It doesn't enter the battlefield, then become affected; it enters the battlefield affected. Your friend could indeed gain 8 life in your example.
Actually, concerted effort has a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of the upkeep.
All Generalizations are Bad
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3 years ago ::
Oct 04, 2010 - 8:37AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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Its not so much that I haven't been exposed to the rules, as I haven't been exposed to the NEW rules.
Things like Circles of protection  have always included choices despite not targetting, so it's not new to have choices that are unrelated to targetting.
What is new* is that they are now very consistent in using "target". If you see a modern card with the word target, then you can be sure that it targets. Similarly, if the card lacks the word "target", and isn't an aura, then you know it doesn't target. On older cards, they were a bit looser with their wording, and would sometimes mean target without actually saying it (see the printed wording of Ancestral Recall  for example).
*by "new", i just mean relative to when the game was released. They've been consistent for many years now.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 04, 2010 - 8:45AM
#16
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Actually, concerted effort has a triggered ability that triggers at the beginning of the upkeep.
Damn, I never noticed that before (probably because its not in my decks). I feel foolish.
Thanks all.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 04, 2010 - 9:12AM
#17
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I disagree on it being less intuitive. The rules state that something targets if it says it targets, or if it is the equip ability of an equipment or an aura spell on the stack (which the rules both state target). They say that if something else doesn't say it targets, then it doesn't. So it's pretty intuitive to come to the conclusion that as proliferate doesn't say it targets, it doesn't.
This implies that the Equip ability is the only keyword ability that targets.
That is not correct. I can't remember the exact number of targeted keyword abilities, but it's of the order of 7.
Also, keyword abilities that target do say they target; it's just that the place they tell you is in the Comprehensive Rules.
ETA : The full list appears to be Equip, Provoke, Modular, Soulshift, Haunt, Fortify and Reinforce.
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