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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 5:46PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2010
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a 1/1 creature with infect attacks, a 1/1 creature with "(G): regenerate" blocks. the blocking player pays for regenerate. does the creature with regenerate die, or is it saved?
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 5:47PM
#2
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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It will go to the graveyard for having less than 1 toughness. This isn't destruction, so the regeneration shield won't help.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:21PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2010
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MTG comprehensive rulings/definitions:
regenerate - 614.8. Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. The word "instead" doesn't appear on the card but is implicit in the definition of regeneration. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it's an attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat." Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates. See rule 701.11.
infect - (This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.)
so in case of infect, regenerates ruling "Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates." the -1/-1 counters still go onto the creature even though i deals leathal damage. or is it that the creature did have infect and the damage was never present? it just threw -1/-1 counters on the blocker. i'm srry i'm tring to understand what is happening.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:24PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2009
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MTG comprehensive rulings/definitions:
regenerate - 614.8. Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. The word "instead" doesn't appear on the card but is implicit in the definition of regeneration. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it's an attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat." Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates. See rule 701.11.
infect - (This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters and to players in the form of poison counters.)
so in case of infect, regenerates ruling "Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates." the -1/-1 counters still go onto the creature even though i deals leathal damage. or is it that the creature did have infect and the damage was never present? it just threw -1/-1 counters on the blocker. i'm srry i'm tring to understand what is happening.
Creatures with toughness 0 or less are put into their owner's graveyards. This is not destruction, so regeneration cannot replace it.
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My initial responses to rules questions are usually just answers. If you want an explanation as to why, say so.
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Anyone who wants to text duel me through either PM or chat can just PM me with a format (and a time if playing through chat). I don't play standard.
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3CB #1 (1/30/11): Won by silasw, with Mishra's Factory  , Orzhov Basilica  , Vindicate  .
3CB #2 (2/13/11): Won by Vektor480, with Mishra's Workshop  , Ensnaring Bridge  , Scalding Tongs 
3CB #3(2/20/11): Joint win between defuse, with Saprazzan Skerry  , Scalding Tongs , Energy Field  ; and Mown, with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale  , Inkmoth Nexus  , Sheltered Valley 
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So, how would I use a card that has a large  in the top half and "sui?l? -- pu?? ?is?q" across the middle?
Winning is not important if:
1. You win by a blowout.
2. You pay billions of dollars in cards to win. If you like wasting money just to win one game, while you could have saved it to lose a few and end up winning more in the future, then it is fine by me.
what?
do you ceremonially light your deck on fire after a win?
Or did no one notice Transmogrifying Licid  before. (And by not notice, I mean covered their ears and shouted LA LA LA LA  )
Hmmm...
I think the most awkward situation at the moment is simply the Myr Welder / Equipment / Licid / Aura craziness, but I'm pretty sure he's aware of it.
If the most awkward thing going on right now involves Licids, I declare victory.
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[02:47:46] It doesn't merely "come out of suspend" - you take the last time counter off, and then suspend triggers and say "now cast that! CAST IT NOOOOOW!"
[02:47:49] Because suspend has no indoors voice
[10:11:33] !opalescence
[10:11:33] Opalescence {2WW} |Enchantment| Each other non-Aura enchantment is a creature with power and toughness each equal to its converted mana cost. It's still an enchantment. · Reserved,UD-R,Vin,Leg,Cla,USBC
[10:11:51] *sigh*
[10:12:10] Otecko: Do you have a question about Opalescence?
[10:12:17] sure
[10:12:23] $10 on humility interaction
[10:12:25] :P
[10:12:29] :D
[10:12:47] humility + opalescence put into play by replenish
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Dear Mage24365,
You are totally awesome. Thank you so much. I hope you are able to dine in Paradise without kicking the bucket to actually get there, and that every dollar you ever make magically becomes two more.
I don't think there are any cards like that.
There are things that prevent you from activating activated abilities, things that increase their cost, and things that counter them, but I don't think anything triggers from them specifically.
There are things that trigger from targeting, so that might be relevant, but I can't think of anything that triggers from targeting a player.
I'm almost positive there's nothing that triggers from damage being prevented.
Rings of Brighthearth  ; Dormant Gomazoa  ; Samite Ministration  .
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:32PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2001
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so in case of infect, regenerates ruling "Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates." the -1/-1 counters still go onto the creature even though i deals leathal damage. or is it that the creature did have infect and the damage was never present? it just threw -1/-1 counters on the blocker. i'm srry i'm tring to understand what is happening.
I'm having trouble understanding your question, but I will mention that the rule you quote has no bearing on this situation at all; neither regeneration nor infect involve anything "triggering". "Trigger" as used in the Magic rules always refers specifically to triggered abilities, and there are no triggered abilities mentioned in your scenario.
Jeff Heikkinen
DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:34PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
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Dealing damage is a two-step process.
First you figure out what damage is actually being dealt.
Then you figure out what the result of the dealt damage is.
So my 3/3 Infect Lifelink is blocked by your 1/1 regenerator, and you play a spell/ability that prevents the next 1 damage that would be dealt to your regenerator.
In the first step, we see that 3 damage (from a source with Infect & Lifelink) is going to be dealt to your creature, but 1 of it is being prevented. Okay. Now 2 damage (from a source with Infect & Lifelink) is going to be dealt to your creature.
Now we determine what the result of that 2 damage is. If Infect weren't involved, 2 damage would be marked on your creature. But because my creature has Infect, instead of marking 2 damage, I put 2 -1/-1 counters on your guy. Also, because of lifelink, I gain 2 life.
So the result of the damage is "I put 2 -1/-1 counters on your creature and I gain 2 life."
So you see, the regenerator never had damage of any kind marked on him. Damage was dealt to him yes, but it never got there... 2 -1/-1 counters got there.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:47PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2010
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srry guys this happened alot during the pre-release at my shop this weekend. i'm playing devil's advocate. the problem card:
Blight Mamba
since infect was every where people wanted to stop those poison counters, so they blocked a creature w/ infect with Blight Mamba. stating they could regenerate and it live. alot said yes, many said no. my question, whose right? and why?
regenerate stops "destroy" effects. but, if a creature is dealt lethal damage (according to the comp rules) it is "destroyed" as a state-based effect so therefore regeneration removes all damage and removes the creature from combat. thus saving it.
but infect forces the -1/-1 counters on to the creature, not really damage. 2nd the creature hits 0 toughness and then is 'destroyed" as a state-based effect. so can it be regenerated then? will the counters remain and just kill it anyway or are they removed?
EDIT: srry about that. i'm never doing a copy paste from gatherer again.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:50PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2010
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No, having 0 toughness does not destroy the creature. A creature that has 0 toughness is sent to the graveyard as a state based action, this is not destruction thus regeneration and being indestructible does not save it.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:52PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2010
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but infect forces the -1/-1 counters on to the creature, not really damage. 2nd the creature hits 0 toughness and then is 'destroyed" as a state-based effect. so can it be regenerated then? will the counters remain and just kill it anyway or are they removed?
Creatures that have a toughness of zero are very specifically NOT destroyed. They are merely placed into their owner's graveyard.
Creatures are destroyed by state based actions only when they have a lethal amount of damage marked on them. Since infect does not mark any damage on creatures, it will never cause them to be destroyed, thus regeneration has no event to replace.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2010 - 6:54PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2010
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thanks guys. some big arguements were being thrown over this. i'll be sure to tell them next time i'm there.
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