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3 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2010 - 1:13PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2008
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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 9:14PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2007
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Allies in Rise would have been awesome. Not hard to put the flavor together either... instead of a single guy levelling up to be as big as the Eldrazi, it's a whole bunch of guys working together to take 'em down. I was so hopeful for Allies when Zen was first being spoiled but it feels like there was more that could have been done with them.
I think the nostalgia in Scars is going well so far.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 9:15PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2009
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This whole last year of Magic starting with Zen is what pulled me back in after nearly 9 years away. Keep up the good work.
Not sure I like poison counters yet, I died by poison overdose too many times this weekend by it. LOL.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 9:32PM
#4
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- C:\Programms Files
- Gaelin's Coffee Runner
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Rise limited made me felt uneasy, made me feel "This is not Magic, this is not the game I enjoyed for so many years." There were too many insurmountable problems opponents could put out. It wasn't fun. And no amount of goading and watching others could draw me back in after that first experience.
Scars, on the other hand, plays a lot more fun. The poison, though, might be a little much. Many games, there might as well not have been a life total. There needs to be some answer. Not like Leeches, which just takes all of the work against the "new" life total and throws it away, just something like "Remove two counters [from anything]" which can stymie the bleeding.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 9:40PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2009
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Honestly, if you had done nothing good this last year except make Rise Limited, I'd consider the year a success. I agree that a few allies in Rise wouldn't have hurt, though. In fact, the only thing I don't like about RoE is that so few cards made the cut in Standard (that and Haze Frog  ; it really should have said "... prevent all combat damage that creatures not named Haze Frog would deal this turn"). And Vengevine  , I guess. I don't like Vengevine. But I do like Rise Limited. (Okay, point made. I'd better quit before I go off on a rambling tangent about my pet peeves.) Anyway, good job. Edit: And Drana should have been mythic. I'd better add that as well. Maybe she and Vengevine could have switched rarities.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 9:43PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2009
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I played a G/B poison deck at the pre-release this weekend. Playing with poison feels exactly as I expected. It feels like the opponent (and I, if he/she is playing poison also) just start at 10 life. The creature combat is slightly different due to the withering of infect, but overall the game played out the same. I know one of the goals of bringing back poison was not to allow it to feel like just a second life total, and in this aspect, i feel that it has failed. I do not begrudge R&D's (or perhaps just Mark's) personal experiment - without experimentation the game would go stale - but it seems this one just didn't work as planned. Infect is very, very good. Not arguing that point. It just doesn't add to the game in a positive way, I feel. On the positive side, I'm very grateful for the slowing down of Limited. Occasionally, it worked in my favor (adding poison counters is a slow process). Occasionally, not (getting rolled over by a Myr Battlesphere).  But the games were always more fun. Keep experimenting, R&D, you succeed more often than you fail. And keep up the good work. Looking forward to another good year of Magic.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 9:44PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2006
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Definitely a better year for design than Shards, but the issue with non-interactivity was with us last year too. I am glad you guys finally got that only paying attention to one side of the board except to clear a path was bad, but that was going on for an entire year. Laying blame at the feet of Zendikar specifically is not correct. Not saying Zendikar didn't have these characteristics, but anyone watching Alara Block constructed could see that coming a mile away.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 9:55PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2010
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Rise limited made me felt uneasy, made me feel "This is not Magic, this is not the game I enjoyed for so many years." There were too many insurmountable problems opponents could put out. It wasn't fun. And no amount of goading and watching others could draw me back in after that first experience.
Scars, on the other hand, plays a lot more fun. The poison, though, might be a little much. Many games, there might as well not have been a life total. There needs to be some answer. Not like Leeches, which just takes all of the work against the "new" life total and throws it away, just something like "Remove two counters [from anything]" which can stymie the bleeding.
Rise limited was seriously the best limited I've ever played. So many deck strategies. You actually have to draft around a archetype rather than just draft good cards. Hopefully wizards continues this as much as possible in the future.
It made the format a whole ton more skill intensive than any other format.
If nothing else, I love wizards for rise limited.
This is zendikar's time to shine. Now that Shards it's out, it needs to prove that it's a fun formate, rather than just BBE + Blightning for 6 months. Hopefully it will hold up.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 10:26PM
#9
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This was interesting to read- returning from the Scars prerelease, I had an extended discussion with a few friends about how they felt the last year went for the game. We're obviously just a sample of four people with similar viewpoints, but we all agreed that Zendikar was a low point, while Rise of the Eldrazi was one of the best sets ever printed.
As Zendikar slips further and further away, I find it's left a bad taste in my mouth. I liked so many pieces of it (including all the ones that made it the land block): landfall, traps, the enters-the-battlefield lands, the dual manlands, many of the quests, a lot of the individual cards, but my memory is dominated by two things I really didn't enjoy: allies and draft.
Allies didn't interest me because they were so linear, so disconnected from other sets, and their execution felt very mechanical (Seascape Aerialist takes a whole lot of words to execute an effect that's pretty similar to Winged Sliver).
And drafting wasn't fun because the environment was so fast (a development misstep) and the card choices were so narrow (a design problem stemming from the way monocolor was encouraged).
Conversely, RoE did so much that was enjoyable- it forced players to think in new directions, the levelers came out early and then demanded interesting choices, the spawn helped cast Eldrazi but also got gobbled up by Annihilator effects and clogged the battlefield without complicating it, totem armor made auras relevant, and the colorless cards created interesting draft decisions. Everything felt very different and very interconnected without being too parasitic. Plus, embracing Lovecraft makes for some great visuals and flavor.
So in short, for me (and at least three others), the last year hit very high and very low.
Edit: And, of course, M11 was also a rousing success.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2010 - 10:39PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2007
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I performed well in Rise limited but didn't enjoy it. I think I need to take another look to see if my judgements were erroneous if you all feel it was a success. I'm sure many palyers liked it but I did not and that could lead to some interesting things if I reconfirm my feelings and can define the thoughts to back them...or change my mind with additional experience. Scars, however, feels much, much better. It's not the break-neck speed or Zen/Wake but it's not super slow either. There are many ways to build and this puzzled some players but tight play and a dedicated plan can get you there. I knew I didn't want to win with Poison but knew I had to be capable of defending against it and I found more then enough ways to do so  . I also recognized I didn't need a ton of Poison guys to kill with Poison...just enough guys and a decent piece of Equipment  . Simply beating face with solid guys  and taking advantage of a large pool of playable artifact creatures (which every player has access to), IS a decent plan but many were building in too many directions to compete with "swinging." I do want to point out one other thing before heading to bed (otherwise I could go on and on): I do not think that Zendikar/WWK limited are "too fast" in the slightest. Good players know how to keep the pressure up AND how to slow it down. It may take losing a few times to get an opponent to realize that shooting that Steppe Lynx or Plated Geopede or Kazandu Blademaster with their best, early removal spell is, in fact, a good idea...but they'll get there. Yeah, it's limited. Yes, you may only have a few good removal spells...but living to see your other cards is important too. Control players know this in Constructed, all players can apply that to limited.
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