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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 7:46PM
#571
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2007
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I've been out of standard since around Lorwyn, and to catch up with what new decks are out there in the current meta i've been reading a lot of threads. My question for this deck is, how does the deck operate when you don't end up with a Quest for the Holy Relic  in your opening hand? Are you supposed to mulligan agressively until that card is in your hand, or do you wait and hope to draw it a few turns down the line? My favorite decklist is the one Ironmagus posted last, and I really hope to try out something like that when I jump back into standard. It's cheap $$ wise, and I've been looking for a way to get back into standard on the cheap. On that note, if anyone can point me to some competitive standard decks that don't break the bank, I'd really appreciate it. (Yeah, I know they probably don't exist beyond maybe... certain versions of this deck.... but it's worth asking.)
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 10:32PM
#572
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2003
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I've been out of standard since around Lorwyn, and to catch up with what new decks are out there in the current meta i've been reading a lot of threads.
My question for this deck is, how does the deck operate when you don't end up with a Quest for the Holy Relic in your opening hand?
Basically, quite poorly. Good lists try and maximise redundancy with Stoneforge Mystic+Kor Outfitter and most run a secondary strategy, whether it's just WW beats with Student of Warfare, or Tempered Steel, or in some cases a Soul Sisters lifegain angle.
But unless it hits the Argentum Armor combo-out in the early turns (before your opponent has the mana/cards to just kill the creature and strand the Armor), this deck really struggles. That's why you won't see it too much in the top finishes, it's just too temperamental to consistently make it through many-round tournaments.
EDIT: I meant to say - It's not great in big tournaments, but it's not a bad option for FNM given it's cheap and will occasionally win just on a few godhands in a 4 round event.
It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.
It should be about giving black cards to Niche.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 10:48PM
#573
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2009
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I've been out of standard since around Lorwyn, and to catch up with what new decks are out there in the current meta i've been reading a lot of threads.
My question for this deck is, how does the deck operate when you don't end up with a Quest for the Holy Relic in your opening hand?
Basically, quite poorly. Good lists try and maximise redundancy with Stoneforge Mystic+Kor Outfitter and most run a secondary strategy, whether it's just WW beats with Student of Warfare, or Tempered Steel, or in some cases a Soul Sisters lifegain angle.
But unless it hits the Argentum Armor combo-out in the early turns (before your opponent has the mana/cards to just kill the creature and strand the Armor), this deck really struggles. That's why you won't see it too much in the top finishes, it's just too temperamental to consistently make it through many-round tournaments.
EDIT: I meant to say - It's not great in big tournaments, but it's not a bad option for FNM given it's cheap and will occasionally win just on a few godhands in a 4 round event.
Despite this, its still fun to play and still can compete as long as you get the armor.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 15, 2010 - 11:57PM
#574
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2010
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Also, another option for the deck would be a red splash, using the goblin gavaleer and goblins guide in place of the squadron hawks, and students of warfare. Maybe even throwing in some instant red spells for an alternative win-con.
Then there is the b splash that utilizes dark tutelage, since all the guys you can draw are some the damage really doesn't hurt unless you draw the armor. Which would suck.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2010 - 8:45PM
#575
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2003
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So, I don't know how many of you read ChannellFireball, but Joe Silvestri posted an article about the following GW variant of Quest.dec:
// Land
5 [UNH] Forest
8 [UNH] Plains
4 [SOM] Razorverge Thicket
4 [M11] Sunpetal Grove
2 [M11] Stirring Wildwood
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Birds of Paradise
4 [SOM] Glint Hawk
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [M11] Ornithopter
4 [M11] Fauna Shaman
4 [M11] Squadron Hawk
4 [ROE] Vengevine
1 [SOM] Molten-Tail Masticore
1 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
// Spells
4 [ZEN] Quest for the Holy Relic
2 [SOM] Argentum Armor
1 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
// SIDEBOARD
1 [ZEN] Kor Outfitters
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [ZEN] Devout Lightcaster
3 [ROE] Kor Firewalker
2 [M11] War Priest of Thune
1 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
3 [???] ???
I think the three open SB slots should go to stuff like 1 Tajuru Preserver, 1-2 Obstinate Baloth, or 3 Ajani Goldmane. The only thing I'd want in the MD is 1 or 2 Kor Skyfisher, for the ability to fetch something and double-trigger the Quest, or to fetch up an auto-animate for Vengevines when you have a Thopter or something in play.
Basically, you do what people have been saying for a while, and run two overlapping plans. Unlike the original Quest decks, especially the ones running 4 Outfitter and 4 Stoneforge as 'backup', you don't have to go all-in on the one fast beatdown strategy and open yourself up to painful Pyroclasms and so on. You can, short of a Quest in hand, legitimately slow-roll an opening hand, holding back your free guys to feed a Fauna Shaman or recur Vengevines or both.
You lose almost nothing from the change, but gain a lot. This is the first list for this deck that I think is genuinely competitive.
It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.
It should be about giving black cards to Niche.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 19, 2010 - 10:49AM
#576
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I read that article yesterday and I have to say that I was NOT impressed by any of the builds on that list. You can tell he did no testing what-so-ever which is disappointing. But I will reserve judgement on this build until I see results.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 19, 2010 - 8:23PM
#577
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2003
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I read that article yesterday and I have to say that I was NOT impressed by any of the builds on that list. You can tell he did no testing what-so-ever which is disappointing. But I will reserve judgement on this build until I see results.
He did, though... If you reread the article you'll see he went 8-1. The list I posted is one implementing his suggested changes to the MD (i.e. cut the Razormanes down to singleton, bring SoBaM and a single Stoneforge MD).
It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.
It should be about giving black cards to Niche.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 21, 2010 - 8:25PM
#578
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2010
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I just waded through this entire thread and I definitely agree it needs to be split... I doubt anyone would follow me to a new thread though, so if Cyrus wants to start a W/B one or Magus wants to start a monowhite one then that would be sweet. I love the black splash, but I worry about Dark Tutelage  with the 6 mana armor, the 4 mana Ajani Goldmane  , and even the three mana sword plus fetchlands for mana fixing. Seems like even with some form of lifegain (Ajani) you have the potential to kill yourself very quickly, CA notwithstanding. You'll be thinning the deck with fetches, potentially Squadron Hawk  , and the quest, so that doesn't help your chances of topdecking a high mana card and owning yourself. And without the Outfitters/Mystic package there is little you can do if you CA fails to draw you an early quest. Maybe this deck could work with Crystal Ball  or something but that seems like high curve to me too. I love Dark Tutelage , have a playset and keep trying to find ways to make decks around them but so far there's nothing that's all one mana and relatively "safe" besides a really janky R/B Pyro Ascension build on this forum. There's lots of playtesting for this deck and I know it turns out well, so I could be totally wrong. I can't afford all the fetchlands right now otherwise I'd sleeve it up... Maybe I'll do a proxy version just to try it for fun. On the other hand, I really like the monowhite version of this build. I think Kor Outfitter  s and Stoneforge Mystic  s give you a pretty safe backup plan in case of a too-slow quest, so this deck has more midgame playable potential that rescues it from the no-quest opening hand problem. I've been building a bunch of janky semi-homebrew decks since I started playing Magic a few months ago, and now I'm basically trying to make the cheapest Tier 1/FNM winning deck possible. There is a lot of JTMS U/W control in my meta right now (BSA, Wurmcoil, Frost Titans etc.), Elves, Boros R/G landfall, turboland and some other random Vampires etc. So far here's my list: White Weenie Quest 4x Glint Hawk  4x Kitesail Apprentice  3x Kor Outfitter 4x Kor Skyfisher  4x Ornithopter  4x Memnite  4x Squadron Hawk 3x Stoneforge Mystic 3x Student of Warfare  4x Quest for the Holy Relic 2x Argentum Armor  1x Sword of Body and Mind  17x Plains  3x Tectonic Edge  Sideboard: 4x Kor Firewalker  (vs. red) 4x Salvage Scout  (vs. artifact destroy) 4x Luminarch Ascension  (vs. control) 3x Revoke Existence  ? As far as I can tell, this is as close to the "archetype" of WW Quest as I'm ready to go. I have some other questions/suggestions re: this deck and I'd welcome comments; if nobody cares, I'll try making a new thread. Do you guys think any of these ideas below are worth dropping something from the list? - Emerge Unscathed  seems tailor-made for this deck. Protect your dude who just got equipped with the armor for two turns for one mana? Sounds pretty excellent to me. - Sunspear Shikari  seems like a great way to regain life in the Dark Tutelage build, but it might also work here as a two-drop. I'm thinking the lifelink is useful but may be too slow, and we would probably be better off with Kitesail Apprentice 's evasion. - Hyena Umbra  much the same as Emerge Unscathed , offers protection for your armor equipped swinger for only one mana and adds first strike. I'm not the first to suggest this but it looks good. - Honor of the Pure  , a classic WW card, might be a good replacement for Kitesail Apprentice as I think we already have four creatures with flying that would make good targets for armor equip. Then we have a classic WW strategy that works with most of these creatures, and seems to have more synergy with this deck than Tempered Steel  or Steel Overseer  does trying to force more artifact creatures in it. I also think that we're running quest plus the Outfitter/Mystic combo, so there is potential to add some more higher-cost artifact equipments into this deck, especially since there's no Dark Tutelage . This way, if we have a quest down already, or if we somehow lose our armors or whatever, we have backup. - Pennon Blade  with all these weenies on the board? Could easily be +6/+6...
- Ogre's Cleaver  ?
- Warlord's Axe  seems like a no brainer in this deck over Trusty Machete  ...
- Blazing Torch  is super cheap and is basically a burn spell
Are these just win-more cards or is there space for them in this deck?
Jinxed Idol  looks good too vs. control, as others have said.
Thanks for reading this huge post.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2010 - 12:17PM
#579
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This deck is good, you just have to know how to mulligan.
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3 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2010 - 7:50PM
#580
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2006
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I still like the blue splash more than I like the green. Just seems more like I can filter out things with preordain and trinket mage, and if need be do a transformative sSB to a more controlly version.
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