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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 8:47AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2009
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I've been playtesting all weekend and I think the most optimal build is pretty much playing with 12-16 ramp spells. If you're playing BBE then IMHO the best way to go is to not play any removal MD since you pretty much want your BBE to hit your ramp spell 100% of the time. Play 2-3 summoning trap MD since they're pretty much adding 2-3 to each creature count you have.
There's one interesting list in the US nationals which play 21 creatures with bogardan hellkite  which I'm going to test out.
Cascading BBE into a Lightning bolt is very acceptable to me. 12 Ramp spells seems the perfect balance.
The thing is with a valakut deck you need the removals to get rid of early threat (mana dorks, ball lightning, goblin guide, fauna shaman, etc). Once you get to 3rd, 4th or 5th turn you should be ready to execute your combo and the removals really don't matter anymore.
Play a fair number of games with the deck. The bolts matter. The bolts are needed. When you're starting down U/W control, and Trying to keep Jace off his ultimate, and your opponent has Tec edged/ Seas'd your Valakuts, It definitely matters.
And to Add to this. BBE is actually becoming a liability. I sided out the Geopedes and BBE almost every game friday. why? Because cascading into burn ramp is fun. Cascading through your primevals, AoZs, Terastadons, Traps and everything else is not.
I won't say I am an expert with this deck. I will however say that I think I know what I'm doing, and have a fairly good record with it.
I've learned not to play this deck from the point of should be's, and instead what most consistently will be's.
"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 9:05AM
#22
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2010
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Play a fair number of games with the deck. The bolts matter. The bolts are needed. When you're starting down U/W control, and Trying to keep Jace off his ultimate, and your opponent has Tec edged/ Seas'd your Valakuts, It definitely matters.
And to Add to this. BBE is actually becoming a liability. I sided out the Geopedes and BBE almost every game friday. why? Because cascading into burn ramp is fun. Cascading through your primevals, AoZs, Terastadons, Traps and everything else is not.
I won't say I am an expert with this deck. I will however say that I think I know what I'm doing, and have a fairly good record with it.
I've learned not to play this deck from the point of should be's, and instead what most consistently will be's.
I'm with you on this one and I'm not saying to not play removals at all, they're on the sideboard of course.
What's your thought on playing a more aggresive version with a full set of inferno titan, siege-gang and maybe even bogardan hellkite?
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 9:12AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2009
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Play a fair number of games with the deck. The bolts matter. The bolts are needed. When you're starting down U/W control, and Trying to keep Jace off his ultimate, and your opponent has Tec edged/ Seas'd your Valakuts, It definitely matters.
And to Add to this. BBE is actually becoming a liability. I sided out the Geopedes and BBE almost every game friday. why? Because cascading into burn ramp is fun. Cascading through your primevals, AoZs, Terastadons, Traps and everything else is not.
I won't say I am an expert with this deck. I will however say that I think I know what I'm doing, and have a fairly good record with it.
I've learned not to play this deck from the point of should be's, and instead what most consistently will be's.
I'm with you on this one and I'm not saying to not play removals at all, they're on the sideboard of course.
What's your thought on playing a more aggresive version with a full set of inferno titan, siege-gang and maybe even bogardan hellkite?
I'm Debating the merits of it right now. 16 creatures means, either no MD bolts (I personaly disagree with) or no MD Traps (Not sure how I feel about it). I like the idea of Hellkites, as it does help tighten up the air game, and peg something for 5. The problem is that its an 8 drop, and doesn't hit BSA. It's also rotating in a month. Inferno Titan as a 2-3 of might be worth it. I'll test them out at some point and see.
I was going to test wolfbriar elemental as another token generator, but I don't think it will be worth it, since I run 7 green sources max, and will probably only get about 2 tokens out of it. I haven't decided yet. I have a busy week, so I won't be able to test.
My hope is SoM gives a good replacement for SGC.
"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 9:23AM
#24
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Date Joined:
May 31, 2008
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Why there's no Garruk Wildspeaker  in here? He is a bit slow and vulnerable, but provides some minor manaramp, 3/3 tokens that help the matchups vs. heavy creatures decks, and an eventual alpha-strike through overrun that followed by a mountain with a couple of valakuts could win the game.
Plus, Lotus Cobra  seems to find a great home in this deck, expecially with a landfall-heavy build running 8x fetchlands ( Terramorphic Expanse  and Evolving Wilds  ) as long as other landfall cards like Avenger of Zendikar  and Khalni Heart Expedition  . He's a dead drop in late game, but paired with khalni and Explore  during the second turn makes the possibility of dropping a big threat during the 4-5th turn a lot more consistent.
I had Lotus Cobra in the initial versions of my deck, and every time I played him I caught myself thinking "Why the hell aren't you a Rampant Growth!?" He's bad in this deck for the same reason that Garruk is bad; you want to be putting lands on the board, not just generating mana every single turn.
T2 Cobra followed by a T3 (fetch)land allows to have a big mana potential to play T3 both Harrow, and Explore / Khalni (if not a second harrow or cultivate). Cobra is not a replacement for ramp spells, is a card to support them and refund their mana cost when they put the lands into the battlefield, speeding up the deck even more.
The same holds for Garruk: in my opinion Valakut should only be the main wincon of the deck, but not the only one: ramp should be be functional both for grabbing lands (for valakut) and for having more mana to play other big fatties. Garruk and Cobra don't grab lands, but first turn cobras can make ridiculous amounts of mana, and Garruk can provide additional ramp for a T4 titan when you don't go with T2 Explore and T3 Harrow, being itself a threat to be dealt with its -1 and -4 abilities.
I'm not telling they should be staple as the titan in this archetype, I'm just in the opinion they should be taken in consideration as possibilities in ramp versions of Valakut decks.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 10:36AM
#25
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Trust me, Cobra is ONLY good on turn 2, and nowhere after that. Garruk could be ok, but they're still not getting the job of putting lands in play done, which is what you want to be doing. Lightning Bolt MD is a really good idea, as letting mana dorks or Fauna Shamans survive unhindered is bad news. I'm also a big fan of Comet Storm. Late game it becomes a one sided wrath that deals damage to the face at instant speed. Here's my current list. Creatures- 10 4 Primeval Titan  3 Siege-Gang Commander  2 Terastodon  1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth  Instants/Sorceries- 18 4 Lightning Bolt  4 Rampant Growth  4 Explore 4 Cultivate  2 Comet Storm  Enchantments- 4 4 Khalni Heart Expedition Lands- 28 4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle  4 Raging Ravine  4 Terramorphic Expanse 1 Evolving Wilds 3 Forest  12 Mountain  Sideboard 4 Cunning Sparkmage  3 Ricochet Trap  2 Back to Nature  2 Obstinate Baloth  2 Chandra Nalaar  1 Naturalize  1 Terastodon My current record with this deck (through various tweaks) is 13-2-2 in sanctioned matches. It's consistent, hardhitting, and has tons of answers in the sideboard for just about every deck in the format. Edit- Still want to see some sick artwork on the OP, or at least a great big picture of Primeval Titan. 
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 11:16AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2009
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Trust me, Cobra is ONLY good on turn 2, and nowhere after that. Garruk could be ok, but they're still not getting the job of putting lands in play done, which is what you want to be doing. Lightning Bolt MD is a really good idea, as letting mana dorks or Fauna Shamans survive unhindered is bad news. I'm also a big fan of Comet Storm. Late game it becomes a one sided wrath that deals damage to the face at instant speed.
Here's my current list.
Creatures- 10
4 Primeval Titan
3 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Terastodon
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Instants/Sorceries- 18
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rampant Growth
4 Explore
4 Cultivate
2 Comet Storm
Enchantments- 4
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
Lands- 28
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Raging Ravine
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
3 Forest
12 Mountain
Sideboard
4 Cunning Sparkmage
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Back to Nature
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Chandra Nalaar
1 Naturalize
1 Terastodon
My current record with this deck (through various tweaks) is 13-2-2 in sanctioned matches. It's consistent, hardhitting, and has tons of answers in the sideboard for just about every deck in the format.
Edit- Still want to see some sick artwork on the OP, or at least a great big picture of Primeval Titan.
How is your mana consistency? I don't like only having 3 forest. I've found 5 is about the minimum that I can stand going down to and not have mana issues. I also tend to do a 3/2 split on the tap fetches, as I have had needle named on those lands before. Since they are functionally identical, for safety sake there is no reason not to.
Why Dumbo in the main board? I tend to stick my spark mages in the MD (the weeks I run them)and call Dumbo when I'm running against control (Or Jund, to hit the Janky Manabase). I have also had better luck with 2/1 naturalize back to nature vs 1/2. How has it worked for you? Do you find KHE to really be that beneficial? I was always subbing them out, and now I don't even run them. How is Explore? I've had better luck with harrow/RG/Cult vs RG/Cult/Explore. With the creature count I've found it's better to thin the deck than try and draw.
"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 11:24AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2010
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How is Explore? I've had better luck with harrow/RG/Cult vs RG/Cult/Explore. With the creature count I've found it's better to thin the deck than try and draw.
Would you recommend running RG over Explore? And then use Explore after RG rotates? I think the idea of playing a second land can be nice, but it's also not a guarantee, unlike RG. But drawing a card is good too, so I'm kinda split between the 2.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 11:27AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2009
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How is Explore? I've had better luck with harrow/RG/Cult vs RG/Cult/Explore. With the creature count I've found it's better to thin the deck than try and draw.
Would you recommend running RG over Explore? And then use Explore after RG rotates? I think the idea of playing a second land can be nice, but it's also not a guarantee, unlike RG. But drawing a card is good too, so I'm kinda split between the 2.
Late game Explore is better, as you have probably used the ramp you need. Early RG is better because it is consistent.
I'm using RG until rotation. Theoretically Explore is better, I just like the guarantee of RG. Plus I like the shuffle, as I get fatesealed alot.
"My name is Cael and Sonat Hedo-Lina of Lorrd. You killed my father, prepare to die!"
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 4:08PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2007
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Don't have the time to edit it right now but need to add
Lotus Cobra
Garruk
Plated Geopede
(all 3 I don't really thing go in the deck, they distract from the focus of the deck, but I will add them)
Commet Storm
When I get enough time i will pretty up the OP, I am a web developer so I want to do it right.
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3 years ago ::
Aug 23, 2010 - 9:16PM
#30
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I run Plated Geopede  to deal with mana dorks and provide early threat which plays well with the rest of the deck. I'm not quite sure about Lotus Cobra, Garruk I could see being useful because he untaps forest which could then be used for more Explore/Cultivate/Growth/Harrow and then you creatures can also gain trample. I like how the deck that won German Nationals ran Rampaging Baloths. He won the first game with it.
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