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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 12:44PM
#281
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lets put it this way, 95% of people who directly bash jace usually don't play it or can't afford it.
end
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think. 
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 12:47PM
#282
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I bashed Jace before I ran him in Horse Feathers...
I still hate him. Alot. But I'll admit he's insanely powerful and the best card in the format. Bloodbraid Elf comes close, and maybe Koth will beat him. Bottom line: He's crazy good. Burning_Forest is right. Play him and see for yourself.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 12:50PM
#283
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2009
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Jace, the Mind Sculptor will not leave and you will see more of him in the play. In such a standard environment, Jace can be played in lots different decks. Though you do not need 4 of him.... maybe just 1 or 2.....
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 1:55PM
#284
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2006
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lets put it this way, 95% of people who directly bash jace usually don't play it or can't afford it.
I can't afford it, which is a good bit of the reason I hate him. But I've got friends who have let me borrow him for tourneys, and I just feel he is too darned good. I know he won't ever get banned, but lord I'd love for him to be banned. A lot like Bloodbraid Elf, really.
(at)MrEnglish22
"still a better Commander card than Emmara Tandris"
-On the topic of Squire
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 3:53PM
#285
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2007
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this is amusing~
jace
el
vajani
those three are heads and tails above the rest, and jace is far far better than the other two
 Team GFG - Glux's Fine Gents
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 4:31PM
#286
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this is amusing~
jace
el
vajani
those three are heads and tails above the rest, and jace is far far better than the other two
not that i'm trying to lump him in with those 3, gideon is clearly far above the level of most other planeswalkers too, especially the original 5. effectively starting on 8 loyalty is just stupid good most often.
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 4:52PM
#287
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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When they attack with BSA, you keep tapped down the BSA.
With the PW it just killed? Ha.
OK, one at a time:*stuff*
OK, I'm done with this argument. I'll let the records of the PW's speak for themselves and call it a day.
My blog (everyone else is doing it...): http://ideas-abounding.blogspot.com/ "Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong. Paper, rock, and scissors, they all have their pros and cons." - Relient K DISCLAIMER: I'm not a nice person. MOTL Sale List: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/087367.html#0  Sig by the modest, yet talented, zpikduM.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 6:58PM
#288
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Sir, for the record please explain to the court how you understand card advantage working... Because THIS is at the heart of understanding why Jace is good.
How CA works in general or how it works with Jace?
How CA works in general is that it's something you want to have for a slightly higher chance of having cards that are relevant and a slightly lower chance of your opponent having similar. Card quality beats card quantity but quantity can help you find it.
But how it works with jace is this...
Pay 4 mana, play a jace, (-1 ca) brainstorm with Jace, (o ca), cross your fingers ad hope he'll live through an attack phase, and then brainstorm again (+1ca). Repeat until you win or are blown out by a haymaker ( Cruel ultimatum  ,etc) or someone goes to zero.
Or sometimes more like this...
Pay 4 mana, play a jace, (-1 ca) brainstorm with Jace, (o ca), have it bolted or O-ring'd or such (+ 1 ca)... 4 mana for +1, ugh, next y'all will be playing Foresee  .
In both cases though,
paying 3 manas for Divination (- 1 ca) to draw two off the bat (+1 ca), is prolly far more effective. Smaller tempo investment that's less weak against counterspells that gives you faster gains and that doesn't waste your early game.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 7:46PM
#289
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2009
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Sir, for the record please explain to the court how you understand card advantage working... Because THIS is at the heart of understanding why Jace is good.
How CA works in general or how it works with Jace?
How CA works in general is that it's something you want to have for a slightly higher chance of having cards that are relevant and a slightly lower chance of your opponent having similar. Card quality beats card quantity but quantity can help you find it.
But how it works with jace is this...
Pay 4 mana, play a jace, (-1 ca) brainstorm with Jace, (o ca), cross your fingers ad hope he'll live through an attack phase, and then brainstorm again (+1ca). Repeat until you win or are blown out by a haymaker ( Cruel ultimatum ,etc) or someone goes to zero.
Or sometimes more like this...
Pay 4 mana, play a jace, (-1 ca) brainstorm with Jace, (o ca), have it bolted or O-ring'd or such (+ 1 ca)... 4 mana for +1, ugh, next y'all will be playing Foresee .
In both cases though,
paying 3 manas for Divination (- 1 ca) to draw two off the bat (+1 ca), is prolly far more effective. Smaller tempo investment that's less weak against counterspells that gives you faster gains and that doesn't waste your early game.
You really are willfully ignorant. You just posted yourself that most of the time Jace ends up being CA, even if he only sticks for a single turn. On top of that, your opponent's BEST CASE SCENARIO involves having so many creatures on the board that Jace ends up being CA neutral + 4 life.
This is of course ignoring the fact that nearly every deck in standard has a bajillion ways to make sure Jace sticks around until he blows you out with CA or soft lock + ult. This is also ignoring the fact that Jace absoluately punishes opponents that have a less-than-optimal hand.
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3 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2010 - 11:17PM
#290
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2009
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Sir, for the record please explain to the court how you understand card advantage working... Because THIS is at the heart of understanding why Jace is good.
How CA works in general or how it works with Jace?
How CA works in general is that it's something you want to have for a slightly higher chance of having cards that are relevant and a slightly lower chance of your opponent having similar. Card quality beats card quantity but quantity can help you find it.
But how it works with jace is this...
Pay 4 mana, play a jace, (-1 ca) brainstorm with Jace, (o ca), cross your fingers ad hope he'll live through an attack phase, and then brainstorm again (+1ca). Repeat until you win or are blown out by a haymaker ( Cruel ultimatum ,etc) or someone goes to zero.
Or sometimes more like this...
Pay 4 mana, play a jace, (-1 ca) brainstorm with Jace, (o ca), have it bolted or O-ring'd or such (+ 1 ca)... 4 mana for +1, ugh, next y'all will be playing Foresee .
In both cases though,
paying 3 manas for Divination (- 1 ca) to draw two off the bat (+1 ca), is prolly far more effective. Smaller tempo investment that's less weak against counterspells that gives you faster gains and that doesn't waste your early game.
You sort of have the idea... Card advantage is the theory that having more resource (normally cards) will win you the game. Mill (I feel like you mentioned mill) is card DISadvantage. it doesn't interact with the board, and costs you a card. Something like Wall Of Omens (it draws you a card when it resolves) offers potential card advantage by creating a board presence that must be dealt with, while using a net of zero cards.
Jace, like most planeswalkers is generally NOT supposed to be played when you know he's immediately going to bite the dust. You play something like Wall Of Omens on turn two and a Sea Gate Oracle on turn three to lay a place for Jace on turn four. You immediately Fateseal him out of Bolt range (if your opponent is in red) and then start drawing extra cards with him. If Jace sticks for 3-4 turns you normally win. He is flexible, in that he can bounce problem creatures like anything with an Eldrazi Conscription or close the door on an opponent with limited outs.
That's why Jace is good. Of course, an opponent's card advantage (like a Jace at 3 when your opponent casts a Blightning and forces you to discard 2 cards and lose your Jace) sucks... However that doesn't make Jace bad, it just underscores how GOOD blightning is.
old quotes from the Worldwake talk: Mike Turian: While Mark Rosewater made Tarmogoyf, I made Tarmogoyf what he is today Mark Rosewater: Would we ever reprint Tarmogoyf? Maybe. 
174 How many of your friendships have lasted more than ten years? Which of your current friendships do you still feel will be important to you ten years from now?
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