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Jul 29, 2010 -- 11:34AM, lo0k1tzsteve wrote:

The Mind Sculptor would work well in this deck. With a large number of Fog effects, you can essentially reach his ultimate while an opponent continuously tries to kill him. However, as for the deck as a whole, Beleren would do better here. Cheaper, faster, and tends to get hit less until your opponent realizes what you're doing.

Putting the Mind Sculptor in the deck is like putting an extra machine gun to a tank. It may help, but it isn't necessary. 

OK, fine, lets say, for the sake of argument, that its worth putting 2.0 in here. What do you take out that won't hurt the deck more than 2.0 can help.

The intention was to build a deck that optimized around not having Jace 2.0. Even so I found myself trying a singleton Jace 2.0 and not reaching a conclusion either way. The trouble is that the deck uses Jace 1.0 bilaterally, whereas most use it unilaterally, so I'm not using it up. It stays on the board. If I'm lucky, it goes ultimate.

That said, Jace 2.0 is a useful toobox and "draw three cards" with erasure is pretty brutal.

Jury's out. If I leave it out its only because Jace 1.0 was also supposed to frustrate Jace 2.0 users.

Gawd, I just dunno.

Jul 29, 2010 -- 1:42PM, Eccomi wrote:

I've always thought Haunting Echoes was necessary in mill decks.  Black also gives the option of Rise from the Grave .  I love the birds tech, btw.

And the argument against Time Reversal isn't quite holding up.  The deck plays Jace Beleren and Temple Bell and Howling Mine , so we realize that our opponents will have very full hands.

EDIT: Wait, shuffles the GY?  Useless except in Underworld Dreams world.

It would be interesting to see some Runed Servitor .  I was just thinking about the possiblity of adding Voltaic Key for the Temple Bell and I realized that it might be fun to include some artifact creatures like Steel Overseer or Triskelion , although that pushes you away from Fog.  just thinking out loud here.

Traumatize ?

These are all options, but I think the Black Blue version you hint at is a different strategy to the Turbo Fog option I've adopted.  The erasure is an enhancement to the turbofog strategy, effectively doubling, tripling or even quadrupling the rate of depletion with each erasure on the field (ie. if you have three "howling mine" effects on the board, just one erasure gives you an extra three cards depleted per turn.

Jul 30, 2010 -- 6:52AM, Jman22 wrote:

Jul 29, 2010 -- 1:20PM, Highwayman wrote:

The intention was to build a deck that optimized around not having Jace 2.0. Even so I found myself trying a singleton Jace 2.0 and not reaching a conclusion either way. The trouble is that the deck uses Jace 1.0 bilaterally, whereas most use it unilaterally, so I'm not using it up. It stays on the board. If I'm lucky, it goes ultimate.

That said, Jace 2.0 is a useful toobox and "draw three cards" with erasure is pretty brutal.

Jury's out. If I leave it out its only because Jace 1.0 was also supposed to frustrate Jace 2.0 users.

Gawd, I just dunno.

Dunno what you're talking about, my Jace has almost always gone ultimate when I play turbo-fog. Might be part of the whole "they can't hit through fog" thing.

Jul 30, 2010 -- 4:05AM, Highwayman wrote:

Agree with Axterix, and would love to find a home for two copies of Archive Trap in this deck.

 Best option would be to replace a Negate and a O-Ring- 6 counters ought to get the job done. And I've been thinking, you might want to consider replacing Mana Leak for Safe Passage. Dunno how badly you need the leak TBH.

I suppose I found that my Jaces were being used to kill a lot of Jace 2.0 before they went ultimate, or I milled the library before I needed to get there.

Mana leak always seemed to be useful because of the mana curve... drop something on turn 2 if not hold mana leak, drop something on turn 3, on turn four i want to play an erasure and hold back mana leak, turn five drop jace and hold mana leak... and so on.

safe passage is a funny one. it doesn't allow me to protect jace, which stinks.

for now though i'm going to keep trying with the current build and see what comes of it. That is, Jace 1.0 all the way!