Great comments all - definitely some things to think about there. It's an interesting conundrum. I can push this deck in one of two directions... either mass Bird token generation, or more control until I get things set up just right. I'm tending to lean more towards the control, simply because of the way my playgroup's meta right now - very creature-destruction heavy, and hard to keep dudes on the board for extended periods. It's for that reason that I've leant away from Battle Screech and Flurry of Wings and towards Keeper of the Nine Gales and other control elements.
So, to reply to a few things: On the merits of vigilance: My sole reason for deciding that vigilance is a good thing here is that it allows the Bird tokens to go for a swing, and then be used by Keeper of the Nine Gales or Crookclaw Elder in opponents' turns. That double-duty strikes me as being worth including. Thoughts? On the deck's card drawing ability: As it stands, this deck can draw cards from Seaside Haven , Crookclaw Elder and Phyrexian Vault . Dismantling Blow would make it even better. Is this heaps? Not enough? Too situational? On the disenchanting: I'd use Dismantling Blow over Aura of Silence . The Aura is indeed awesome - to the point where it tends to get hated on in my playgroup. I'd rather not have to pick a target to disenchant in response to it getting blown up. I'd rather play Seal of Cleansing in that event, so that it didn't have as big a target on its head. On the Bird lords: Yeah, I more than likely have too many here. The Aven Brigadier s should likely be the first cut, due to their high CC. On Terramorphic Expanse : It's in here because I love the fact that it produces a double landfall trigger in a turn. That's nice with a playset of Emeria Angels. On the rest of the land balance: I am concerned about whether I have enough blue mana sources in here. If I have a Seaside Haven available, I want to be able to use it. I want to have as many operational sacrifice outlets as possible, as the more there are, the better Soulcatchers' Aerie becomes. Of course, this then bites into the number of Plains available for Emeria to trigger. It's a subtle balance. If only I had the budget to splash for Hallowed Fountain s! I can easily swap to Calciform Pools , and maybe even Celestial Collonade s, but would I then have enough recursion to make this deck work? Is a singleton Elixir of Immortality enough for the whole deck, and am I valuing recursion too highly again? I dunno.
And wow, I didn't realize Aven Mimeomancer comboed with Kangee and was so cheap! Nice!
It's an interesting conundrum. I can push this deck in one of two directions... either mass Bird token generation, or more control until I get things set up just right. Absolutely. I was trying to push your deck more towards tokens (because of the high number of lords). It would be an equally good decision to push the deck more towards control. I'm tending to lean more towards the control, simply because of the way my playgroup's meta right now - very creature-destruction heavy, and hard to keep dudes on the board for extended periods. Perhaps a good reason for Pride of the Clouds ? It's for that reason that I've leant away from Battle Screech and Flurry of Wings and towards Keeper of the Nine Gales and other control elements.
So, to reply to a few things: On the merits of vigilance: My sole reason for deciding that vigilance is a good thing here is that it allows the Bird tokens to go for a swing, and then be used by Keeper of the Nine Gales or Crookclaw Elder in opponents' turns. That double-duty strikes me as being worth including. Thoughts? (I understand your reasoning, but I just think the deck needs more birds. It seems to rely too much on your Angel to generate tokens, to give you enough resources to bounce permanents, draw cards, get pumped by lords. That is why I was trying to find Birds that gave you the same effect (I now see Gustcloak Savior doesn't really do that). I get how powerful Vigilance is in MP, and I think I spoke too soon. You should keep the enchantment.) On the deck's card drawing ability: As it stands, this deck can draw cards from Seaside Haven , Crookclaw Elder and Phyrexian Vault . Dismantling Blow would make it even better. Is this heaps? Not enough? Too situational? I think you have too many sac outlets, and not enough tokens/cheap birds to sac to them. I also don't think you have enough mana acceleration to have the mana to sac more than a single creature a turn anyway (I might be wrong here though). The deck doesn't have enough low CMC creatures to make your Soulcatcher formidable. The deck doesn't get going until you hit your 4th land. That is why I like the Roc Egg and Squadron Hawk here. You don't care if they die to board wipes, because you get a 3/3 flyer out of the egg, and you can always hold onto a single Squadron Hawk so that you can shuffle the others back into your deck and get +3 CA when you cast it. Those cards give you an early game stall, until you can bury your opponents in CA and creature advantage from the Angel. On the disenchanting: I'd use Dismantling Blow over Aura of Silence . The Aura is indeed awesome - to the point where it tends to get hated on in my playgroup. I'd rather not have to pick a target to disenchant in response to it getting blown up. I'd rather play Seal of Cleansing in that event, so that it didn't have as big a target on its head. (I would still run Aura of Silence . Wouldn't you rather have them hated on then them disenchanting your Soulcatchers' Aerie? On the Bird lords: Yeah, I more than likely have too many here. The Aven Brigadier s should likely be the first cut, due to their high CC. (the Falconer too, because it isn't a bird. Banding really only makes a difference as anti Trample hate, or if you have Wall type creatures with high toughness values. Your tokens are either trying to die, or are already going to be huge. I would pass on Banding.) On Terramorphic Expanse : It's in here because I love the fact that it produces a double landfall trigger in a turn. That's nice with a playset of Emeria Angels. (I think somehow I missed that.) On the rest of the land balance: I am concerned about whether I have enough blue mana sources in here. If I have a Seaside Haven available, I want to be able to use it (You only have 10 cards that use it. 7 total sources are all you really need, and Terramorphic can kind of make up for that). I want to have as many operational sacrifice outlets as possible (true, but you need actual sacrifice sources too. I just don't like the fact that the deck doesn't have any good 2-3 drops that don't mind dieing.), as the more there are, the better Soulcatchers' Aerie becomes. Of course, this then bites into the number of Plains available for Emeria to trigger. It's a subtle balance. If only I had the budget to splash for Hallowed Fountain s! I can easily swap to Calciform Pools , and maybe even Celestial Collonade s, but would I then have enough recursion to make this deck work? Is a singleton Elixir of Immortality enough for the whole deck (keep 2 copies if you include the Squadron Hawk (also consider Mistveil Plains ). The combination is just too good. If you don't run him though, 1 is enough as it shuffles itself back into your library.), and am I valuing recursion too highly again? I dunno.
In all honesty, I was probably projecting my more aggro Birds deck card choices on your more control Birds deck.
Budget EDH:EDH on $20 a Deck. Join the Group Link has been defeated(X times) by Eyegorc in Dungeons 2(2x), 3(3x), and 6(3x).
I'm tending to lean more towards the control, simply because of the way my playgroup's meta right now - very creature-destruction heavy, and hard to keep dudes on the board for extended periods. Perhaps a good reason for Pride of the Clouds ?
I was pondering Flying Kitty. I'm pulling enough lords out that it's worth a look. How bad can it be?
On the deck's card drawing ability: As it stands, this deck can draw cards from Seaside Haven , Crookclaw Elder and Phyrexian Vault . Dismantling Blow would make it even better. Is this heaps? Not enough? Too situational? I think you have too many sac outlets, and not enough tokens/cheap birds to sac to them. I also don't think you have enough mana acceleration to have the mana to sac more than a single creature a turn anyway (I might be wrong here though). The deck doesn't have enough low CMC creatures to make your Soulcatcher formidable. The deck doesn't get going until you hit your 4th land. That is why I like the Roc Egg and Squadron Hawk here. You don't care if they die to board wipes, because you get a 3/3 flyer out of the egg, and you can always hold onto a single Squadron Hawk so that you can shuffle the others back into your deck and get +3 CA when you cast it. Those cards give you an early game stall, until you can bury your opponents in CA and creature advantage from the Angel.
You're right. Now that I've goldfished this a bit better... a playset of Squadron Hawk s + Soulcatchers' Aerie + sac outlet + Mistveil Plains or the Elixir... And Roc Egg 's a pretty good deal too. I've pulled out the Phyrexian Vaults, thrown in a High Market just to be safe, and things look pretty good. Seem to have a good mix of cheap meat shields and sac outlets after that.
Is a singleton Elixir of Immortality enough for the whole deck (keep 2 copies if you include the Squadron Hawk (also consider Mistveil Plains ). The combination is just too good. If you don't run him though, 1 is enough as it shuffles itself back into your library.)
Yah, now I've goldfished with Mistveil Plains , it's in for sure. Nice combo!
Okay, updated build in the top post. Seems to play a lot nicer now - good early drops, decent card draw (adding Distant Melody appears to more than cover that base!), nice recursion, decent threat handling... I like it!
perhaps is airborne aid better then the distant melody the cost are the same. I have it in my deck, with the combination of battle screech you can easily draw 5 cards. my only problem with this card is that it gives to many cards in hand.
I have a pride of the clouds it is really good, perhaps i should buy another one for the deck.
I try to get out some propaganda 's or GP's, and a trumpet. If I have a soulcatchers' aerie out, then that is enough to pump my birds up. gravitational shift is another addition that makes the trumpet awesome. And, to top it all off, I'll toss out dovescape to have maximum protection...and no matter how many birds they have, I can use gustcloak savior to save mine.
But, the best thing in my entire deck is glarecaster . It takes your opponents damage and says, "no." Seriously, look at the gatherer rulings for this card! It takes ALL damage done to you, or it, and redirects it to whatever you want!!!
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains . Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.Show
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is.
One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scour s at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour , you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral . Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion , hedron crab , and curse of the bloody tome , so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements.
Traumatize Rant. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes . You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes.
If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt . The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab , over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome , are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy.
There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 x post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus . Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment[/c], it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind , to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it . There are always new strategies coming out with each new set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you!
Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
: Order, Law, Faith. : Knowledge, Artifice, Control. : Corruption, Death, Self-Interest. : Freedom, Destruction, Victory. : Nature, Growth, Life. : Progressive, but too controlling. : Focused, but short sighted. : Skilled, but hypocritical. : Unified, but without a sense of self. : Cunning, but devious. : Inquisitive, but incautious. : Rational, but impulsive. : Powerful, but spiteful. : Instinctive, but selfish. : Fearless, but reckless.
Airborne Aid is actually strictly better than Distant Melody in this deck... wow... not that I think I'm going to be seeing too many Birds on the other side of the table, short of one guy in my group also currently running Emeria Angel , but still... knowing my collection, might have to stick with Distant Melody for now, and source some Airborne Aid s to replace them in the coming month or two.
Glarecaster is tempting... I can see that being the type of creature not immediately axed in the head by Path to Exile in my playgroup, and thereby being allowed to annoy people late. That said, it's got a high CMC and a costly ability... and what the heck do I swap out for one? Though it's cheap, and I probably only need a singleton here... tough choice!
And yeah, to answer the Dovescape quandry.... far too risky in my playgroup. There are going to be combo players who would simply turn their gameplan into "make lots of birds, swing with them, who cares if they die, build up an army to scalp the Dovescape player so that I can get back to my usual gameplan". Sticking that next to Soulcatchers' Aerie will be a death warrant for me.
I'm not familiar enough with your meta, but I wouldn't think that this deck would necesarilly need recursion. At the very least, I think that Emeria, the Sky Ruin isn't the route for this deck to take. Maybe if you're set on recursion you could try Marshal's Anthem -- it'll boost your birds while recurring the major players. It might be worth a shot.
Is a singleton Elixir of Immortality enough for the whole deck, and am I valuing recursion too highly again? I dunno.
You might be valuing recursion a bit too much. I'm just now starting to use a single Elixir of Immortality in my favorite W/U control deck (I nearly mill myself through card-draw and extended game-states) to restock my library. It really depends on the exact kind of recursion you're looking for.
And yeah, to answer the Dovescape quandry.... far too risky in my playgroup. There are going to be combo players who would simply turn their gameplan into "make lots of birds, swing with them, who cares if they die, build up an army to scalp the Dovescape player so that I can get back to my usual gameplan". Sticking that next to Soulcatchers' Aerie will be a death warrant for me.
Yeah, Dovescape seems like it would be pretty risky here, especially alongside Soulcatchers' Aerie . The "kill him till he's dead and then go back to business as usual" scenario wouldn't happen in my playgroup, though, simply because of our house rule that killing off a player doesn't remove their permanents from the battlefield. I can see that happening elsewhere, though, just to get rid of something esceptionally annoying.
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.
Vigor and Raking Canopy look amazing together, (not to mention the birds in the art of vigor,) But the main point with angel's trumpet isn't glarecaster , it is propaganda and ghostly prison . Players simply cannot attack me with their hoards of bird tokens, (made by dovescape ,) so they have to tap them all. Then, I swing with my birds for the kill.
Also, a better sac outlet that I use is martyr's cause . It is a great early defense from the pesky burn spell. Funny story, btw, I was playing a 2 headed giant match. My partner played dovescape and I was playing my elf-ball deck. I cast a 30 point fireball that gave me 30 bird tokens...next turn, we totally won!.......well...not that funny...but definitely relevant.
HOW TO AUTOCARD! When posting in a text box, type [c]Plains[/c] to make your post showPlains . Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.Show
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is.
One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scour s at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour , you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral . Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion , hedron crab , and curse of the bloody tome , so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements.
Traumatize Rant. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes . You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes.
If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt . The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab , over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome , are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy.
There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 x post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus . Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment[/c], it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind , to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it . There are always new strategies coming out with each new set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you!
Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
: Order, Law, Faith. : Knowledge, Artifice, Control. : Corruption, Death, Self-Interest. : Freedom, Destruction, Victory. : Nature, Growth, Life. : Progressive, but too controlling. : Focused, but short sighted. : Skilled, but hypocritical. : Unified, but without a sense of self. : Cunning, but devious. : Inquisitive, but incautious. : Rational, but impulsive. : Powerful, but spiteful. : Instinctive, but selfish. : Fearless, but reckless.
My partner played dovescape and I was playing my elf-ball deck. I cast a 30 point fireball that gave me 30 bird tokens...next turn, we totally won!.......well...not that funny...but definitely relevant.
Wow... that actually works. I was about to comment about X being zero when calculating converted mana cost (so it would only produce 1 token) but then I discovered rule 202.3b (X = the number paid for X when calculating the converted mana cost of a spell when it's on the stack). So... yeah, sounds like a fantastic win!
"Do not concern yourself with my origin, my race, or my ancestry. Seek my record in the pits, and then make your wager." --Arcanis the Omnipotent
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
Before they banned the format out of existence, I was a proud supporter of Modern.
Proliferate w/ 
Elves)
Keino
=100 Class: 
x 236 Diety: 
125/200 
=2x
dmg/
=4
dmg)
