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Switch to Forum Live View 7/21/2010 BoaB: "Pyromancer Ascension"
3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 7:00AM #31
Delerius
Date Joined: Jul 12, 2010
Posts: 340
Awesome!

I took a break from Magic around the time Alara Reborn came out, and I'm just now getting back into it. As I was looking through the cards I had missed Pyromancer Ascension jumped out of me instantly. I tried to put together a standard deck, but it focused more on burn than card draw. Silly me.. I thought M10 was out of standard already!

Ponder ? I thought you were gone already, welcome back old friend!! Time Warp ? Yes!

I had tried my deck out at a standard tournament last night.. and my 0-4 record wasn't looking too good. Basically all I faced were 3 Jund decks and an Esper deck, they killed me way to fast for me to get my "combo" off. But I had been relying on 2 or 3 double or triple Lightning Bolt s to win, no infinite turn combo. I shall have to try this again..
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 7:06AM #32
urzassedatives
Date Joined: Jan 1, 2005
Posts: 456
Two keys to playing Pyromancer's Ascension decks:

-Don't make winning dependent on the enchantment
-Don't play cards that are usually bad, and only good when doubled.

The most success I have had with a build was a Grixis burn variant, but I don't know if I would play a 4 Blightning 3 Cruel deck these days.
"Stop *****ing, start brewing"
-YoMTGTaps

Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001.

Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 7:16AM #33
Moon_Bei
Date Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 31
Umm...I'm just throwing out ideas here, but if you want to make this budget...replace Time Warp with Archive Trap and throw in oh, I don't know...Roiling Terrain.  Get a budget way to punish people for using thirty-euro manabases. 

If nothing else, you could swap out Time Warp for Reality Spasm.  Not anywhere near as good, but with a little tweaking it can get the same result.  Play Spasm for X, the copy gives you an untap effect, you add mana, then the regular spell gives you mana.  You could get an arbitrarily large turn that way, if you have enough mana open.  At the very least, you can tap critical mana early on. 

And honestly, all this debate on budget...Van Lunen is not required to give you dirt-cheap ways to beat the Magic-hardliners.  There is still the slight detail of building your own deck, at least trying to be original.  You could argue that his decks are too expensive, or you could spend that time and energy trying to get a better, cheap version of the thing.  Learn from it, maybe. 

What is good about this deck? It's consistent, it's powerful, and personally I just love Pyromancer decks.  Besides that, a big chunk of this deck can be acquired through a magic 2011 boosterbox.  If I knew a noob who was about to throw money at this hobby, this is the deck I'd recommend. 
(Assuming I want a noob who won't simply roll over and die at my table, funny though it may be)

What's bad about this deck?

-It relies on the graveyard to power up its key card, which admittedly is a weakness...with Leylines and Relics of Progenitus.  This can be mended with Into the Roil, as mentioned, or Manic Vandal. 

-Some of the key cards will rotate out soon.  Honestly, I can see why this is a concern.  Never played a Constructed tourney myself (casual and multiplayer, this is just a great source for inspiration) but I can see that those who do want some long-term success.  Again, how can you fix this problem? By looking at similar cards that won't rotate out as quickly.  The lack of Ponder does not mean that Treasure Hunt is suddenly useless.  With an Ascension active, Treasure Hunt allows you to sift through a land glut just like Ponder can.  Without one active, it can actually net more cards than Ponder.  And in case the occasional one-one tradeoff doesn't seem all that good, there is also See Beyond. 

-The budget.  This is always going to be debatable.  Fact of the matter is, our hobby is feeding an industry.  We can't get around that.  Be glad that there are viable cards and strategies that don't cost an arm and a leg.  If you cannot afford one way to victory, find one that you can.  Archive Trap is a decent replacement for Time Warp, especially with all the expensive fetch-lands around.  You don't get infinite turns, and against Bloodghast you're risking a lot without Pyroclasms, but it is a viable route to winning, can randomly remove bigger threats (like enchantment removal) and it's at instant speed.  And if you happened to be the aforementioned noob with an M2011 box, Traumatize will work the same way, but less effectively if you want to follow up with Roiling Terrain.  Sphinx-Bone Wand...might work with more mana-acceleration, but it's doubtful at best.  Roiling Terrain on its own might do the job, recurred often enough, but there's the problem of stabilising the board first.  It kinda relies on going off even if there's an army on the other side.  More mass removal for that recipe, and possibly Staggershocks. 

Really though, taking extra turns and burning to death is one way of going about it.  While others may not be as good, there are others.  You could go three-colours and try a Silence lock, if you can afford it. 

My two eurocents. 
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 8:04AM #34
urzassedatives
Date Joined: Jan 1, 2005
Posts: 456

Jul 21, 2010 -- 7:16AM, Moon_Bei wrote:

-It relies on the graveyard to power up its key card, which admittedly is a weakness...with Leylines and Relics of Progenitus.  This can be mended with Into the Roil, as mentioned, or Manic Vandal. 




Bojuka Bog and Haunting Echoes are the best GY hosers for standard right now.
I run bog in my UW control to great success.

"Stop *****ing, start brewing"
-YoMTGTaps

Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001.

Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 8:10AM #35
Lunaar
Date Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Posts: 6
Budget or not, this deck is pretty sick. It also further proves that Spreading Seas is the most powerful card in standard right now (take that, mythic rares).

As far as the budget issue goes, I agree with a previous poster who said that it's very hard to make a reliable, fun deck in this format on the cheap. That said, it's not impossible I'm sure, and I don't really remember sticking to standard format being a requirement, but it does make sense.                             Why would MtG write articles showcasing decks that use old dusty cards? they just printed a bunch of new shinies they want you to (buy) play with!
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 8:14AM #36
AH_Colonel_Coo
Date Joined: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 2,111
You guys who haven't played this deck are GREATLY underestimating its power. 

There are decisions to be made to play it right.  Of that I am sure, since I've trained two other players on how to win with the deck (same decks different drivers). 

Time Warp is inexpensive.  It is the most valuable card in the deck and you really only need 3 to be consistant.  If you can't afford $40 for this deck, maybe you want to start writing a new article called
"Building with crap that nobody plays with EVER!"  or maybe a shorter version called "Building from garbage"  Maybe that would silence you finally. 

Speaking of Silence , it is a great card choice for the deck.  It can stiffle your opponent on turn 3 or 4 to great and lasting effect.  The trouble is that it doesn't thin your own deck, nor will it remove the threat that your opponent would otherwise play (althought it will delay them). 

Lastly, I do think a complete transformation for game 2 is in order.  Drawing your opponent BLANK on all their creature elimination is fantastic.  Bringing in Shroud creatures of your own and generally offensive creature cards (say 1 platinum angel and some hording dragons) after they remove their creature elimination will be deadly.  4 Sphynx, 4 Hording Dragons, 2 Platinum Angel, 2 Phoenix, 3 ancients should do a nice sideboard swap. 
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 8:31AM #37
morticianjohn
Date Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 2,166
This deck is far closer to being a budget deck than some of the past decks. I am really happy with this article it takes me back to when BoaB actually talked about budget decks and in spite of the fact that this deck has "been done before" he was able to pick out a under rated, undervalued decklist that not just anyone would have thought up. Plus in my mind he did a pretty good job keeping it cheaper than some of the decklists he's worked on. I think using a strategy that is rotating so soon is the biggest problem. time warp is essential for this deck to survive and continue to be competitive. So let's get a bunch of "budget" players to go get a $30 playset of a card that they'll never be able to use again. Granted since he did this decklist (pre M11) before you may already have the cards to upgrade with however, that deck wasn't very good so I'm not sure how many people actually played it. The good news is that this deck is a HUGE upgrade to that deck which was 4 colors and at least a turn slower but probably closer to 2 turns slower.
Don't be too smart to have fun
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 9:02AM #38
urzassedatives
Date Joined: Jan 1, 2005
Posts: 456

Jul 21, 2010 -- 8:14AM, AH_Colonel_Coo wrote:

You guys who haven't played this deck are GREATLY underestimating its power. 




I have played Ascension decks. Ones that try for the time warp combo are <<<<<<<<<<<< ones that just try to get value out of copying good spells. Ascension is dealt with easily by most decks, after all.

There are decisions to be made to play it right.  Of that I am sure, since I've trained two other players on how to win with the deck (same decks different drivers). 

Time Warp is inexpensive.  It is the most valuable card in the deck and you really only need 3 to be consistant.  If you can't afford $40 for this deck, maybe you want to start writing a new article called
"Building with crap that nobody plays with EVER!"  or maybe a shorter version called "Building from garbage"  Maybe that would silence you finally. 

Speaking of Silence , it is a great card choice for the deck.  It can stiffle your opponent on turn 3 or 4 to great and lasting effect.  The trouble is that it doesn't thin your own deck, nor will it remove the threat that your opponent would otherwise play (althought it will delay them). 




Silence?.....

Lastly, I do think a complete transformation for game 2 is in order.  Drawing your opponent BLANK on all their creature elimination is fantastic.  Bringing in Shroud creatures of your own and generally offensive creature cards (say 1 platinum angel and some hording dragons) after they remove their creature elimination will be deadly.  4 Sphynx, 4 Hording Dragons, 2 Platinum Angel, 2 Phoenix, 3 ancients should do a nice sideboard swap. 




That is way too many creatures, and will result in you probably losing to the opponent doing whatever they want.

"Stop *****ing, start brewing"
-YoMTGTaps

Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001.

Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 9:31AM #39
PeterWiggin
Date Joined: Aug 11, 2009
Posts: 27
I mentioned ealier in a post (which it would appear a mod has deleted) that you could also put a polymorph combo into this deck.  In another (now deleted) post, fractal suggested moving it maindeck, resulting in a hybrid deck that can put the cheap cantrips to use.  I am not sure whether to do that or just side in creatures.
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 21, 2010 - 9:39AM #40
Zigeif777
Date Joined: Jan 12, 2010
Posts: 739
All you budget whiners, give me a break. Mythics in this, our best of games have severely raped our wallets and the quality of decks that don't use them. You have to learn to GET OVER IT or SETTLE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. Or you could try being resourceful... just do what I do. Admittedly, I have one of the better set-ups here, so it might be different for you guys. Buy a bunch of crap at birthdays, christmas, all that jazz and then use the valuable stuff you get to trade for other, possibly less valuable stuff later. For example, my birthday is in October so I spent crap-tons of money, WAAAY more than I have the rest of the year, on Zen packs and got plenty of fetches and other good cards. Then I used Christmas money to buy the rest of the stuff for a Boros deck. As of Christmas, I had a Jund deck, a WW deck, and Boros Bushwhacker deck. When I got bored with those, I scrapped them and moved on. I now have an Eldrazi Green deck, an Abyssal Persecutor deck, and a B/G Rock deck. Three less expensive but more entertaining decks. And you know how much I've spent since Chrismas in order to make the decks??? NOTHING. I've drafted RoE plenty of times, but never to get the stuff I needed. All that I needed for these decks came from the scraps of other decks. So trade what you have for what you need.
It's my sig in a box!  -RP Jesus
Spoiler: Show

I... need a filing cabinet.  -Quagmire
I think I saw Emrakul in a cartoon with Japanese schoolgirls once.  It didn't end well.  -Qmark
Edit: Couldn't find a cookie, so here's an octopus. Enjoy. -Zigeif777

May 12, 2010 -- 1:15PM, Master_Yumyums wrote:

May 12, 2010 -- 12:14PM, ong312 wrote:

grandma pumps the threat she ramps.



If you believe in Jesus and love him and aren't afraid to admit it, put this in your sig.


    Jun 30, 2010 -- 1:35AM, S1AL wrote:

    Playing a bad deck in order to be original is like using crappy tools to build something. Not only does it look bad in the end, but nobody really thinks that you're cool for being unwilling to do things the way a professional would.


Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares.
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