With some pretty big changes ahead of us, I want to get a head start on this new format.
I ran into some problems, though. You can pretty much take any recent Standard deck (and a couple of Extended decks) and try to port it (or get started on new combo decks - Living End says hello), but what should they be tweeked against? Which decks and specific cards are going to require must-answers?
This thread is an attempt to answer those questions. I would like to see takes on a number of archetypes likely to see play in the new format. Studying up on these archetypes - and the cards that will make them tick - will hopefully help everyone fine-tune their decks for the coming Extended season.
Off the top of my head, I think we're looking at, at least, the following decks:
Faeries Elves Kithkin Red Deck Wins Jund Naya Bant some Cascade -> Suspend deck
...as well as maybe Merfolk, 5cc, Esper and Grixis.
To start this thread off, I'm going to take a shot at Neo Extended RDW:
RDW often lacks a little bit of power in Standard, due to having to play with a couple of cards that aren't quite the bombs a competitive deck needs to compete. It also often falls short in Extended, because, while it gets the cards it needs, the manabases are just too insane for a monocoloured deck to really shine (unless it plays Martyr of Sands, obviously). This may be the perfect format to play this archetype. Whether to splash green for Tarmogoyf and BBE is the best choice or not, I don't know, but with Fetches for Goyf, my guess is that it probably is.
Sideboards are obviously hard to make, so I'm going to list a couple of solid cards against the archetype instead, in following with the spirit of the thread:
Kor Firewalker Dragon Claw Primal Command Doran, the Siege Tower (big dudes in general) Kitchen Finks Story Circle Rhox War-Monk
I hope to see takes on this and other archetypes as we go along.
Comment to the card Nurturer Initiate: [QUOTE=phaseshifter;15594671]She can suck as much as she wants, she's hot
Edit:.....wow, I just realised what I just said...[/QUOTE] --------- [QUOTE=reedbee]I can't count on both hands the number of times I've woken up next to a gorgeous girl after she came up to me and asked to get a better look at my Wumpus.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Beanman1000;17774354]Naw man, you just walk around with a messenger bag with a trade binder and some decks, then use amazing magic pick up lines like "Hey baby, I'd tap that" and "Hey honey, wanna see me use giant growth?"[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Dr_Kraid;18066052]I want to be banned for laying my ween0r on my opponent's deck and posting pictures on the Internet [/QUOTE] ---- On Master Transmuter: [QUOTE=namdoolb;18132994]Nah, I'd rather send her packing on my flame javelin .[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Caldera42;14735749]And I'm not a jerk to myself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Islands;14771286]You're missing out.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Axl_Strife;17032267]I'm Matt Gottlieb b*tch! *banhammer*[/QUOTE]
Moral of the story... Serra is the kind of angel you marry... She's very loyal and always there for you both to attack or block. BSA... Well, she's the kind you call up every now and then to do all those things Serra won't do on some random Friday night.
[QUOTE=Momo;17971299]Actually you win, sir.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sisomic;17973044]A "You win, sir." from Momo is worth 10 zillion dabloons. If only you could sell it...[/QUOTE]
There were others - this one was just the only one that mattered.
Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession Check out the first one of my songs to be recorded by my Jazz/Fusion/whatever-band. Critique is welcome - just send me a PM or something.
// Creatures 4 [EVE] Figure of Destiny 4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf 4 [SHM] Kitchen Finks 4 [ALA] Ranger of Eos 4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide 3 [PLC] Keldon Marauders
// Spells 4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire 2 [ROE] Staggershock 4 [4E] Lightning Bolt 4 [CFX] Path to Exile
Complex manabases aren't really my thing, so it could probably use some (read: a lot of) work, but it's there. The large amount of non-basics isn't really an issue, as the deck has plenty of ways to deal with Magus of the Moon and as the deck is too much of an aggro deck to be dominated by Anathemancer - though against other aggro decks, opposing Anathemancers could really make the difference in a race.
This version doesn't run Baneslayers. It does run the Punishing Fire/Grove of the Burnwillows package, along with what is basically just a list of great creatures and burn.
The tradeoff, when compared to the RDW above, is the loss of Searing Blaze, Demigod, Magus of the Moon (which, depending on the metagame, could still see play in a list like this) and Flame Javelin, compensated by a mean Ranger package, the previously mentioned Punishing Fire package, Finks and Paths.
Which cards to use against this deck is hard. Baneslayers would be very good, but not unanswerable. Wall of Omens might be a big enough stop sign early. Kitchen Finks are good against decks like this, as is Rhox War-Monk. Still hoping for others to join in.
Comment to the card Nurturer Initiate: [QUOTE=phaseshifter;15594671]She can suck as much as she wants, she's hot
Edit:.....wow, I just realised what I just said...[/QUOTE] --------- [QUOTE=reedbee]I can't count on both hands the number of times I've woken up next to a gorgeous girl after she came up to me and asked to get a better look at my Wumpus.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Beanman1000;17774354]Naw man, you just walk around with a messenger bag with a trade binder and some decks, then use amazing magic pick up lines like "Hey baby, I'd tap that" and "Hey honey, wanna see me use giant growth?"[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Dr_Kraid;18066052]I want to be banned for laying my ween0r on my opponent's deck and posting pictures on the Internet [/QUOTE] ---- On Master Transmuter: [QUOTE=namdoolb;18132994]Nah, I'd rather send her packing on my flame javelin .[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Caldera42;14735749]And I'm not a jerk to myself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Islands;14771286]You're missing out.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Axl_Strife;17032267]I'm Matt Gottlieb b*tch! *banhammer*[/QUOTE]
Moral of the story... Serra is the kind of angel you marry... She's very loyal and always there for you both to attack or block. BSA... Well, she's the kind you call up every now and then to do all those things Serra won't do on some random Friday night.
[QUOTE=Momo;17971299]Actually you win, sir.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sisomic;17973044]A "You win, sir." from Momo is worth 10 zillion dabloons. If only you could sell it...[/QUOTE]
There were others - this one was just the only one that mattered.
Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession Check out the first one of my songs to be recorded by my Jazz/Fusion/whatever-band. Critique is welcome - just send me a PM or something.
Just look at the top standard decks of the last 4 years.
There ya go.
Unfortunately, 'Just look at the top standard decks of the last 7 years' didn't really work with the old Extended format, and I'm not sold on it working now. =)
Seriously, though, will a tokens strategy be strong enough in this format? Or will it fall short, like it has traditionally done in Extended, because of its sluggishnes? Likewise about PW control - is it too slow, or will its power merely grow as more PW'ers are printed, and as abilities like Jace2's Brainstorm gets you better cards, Johnny V's Lightning Helix kills more creatures (in this faster format) and Elspeth's tokens holds back Tarmogoyfs and Keldon Marauders? Will something like Esper Control get the tools it needs to be viable? Or will 5cc reign supreme among control decks, even in this faster format?
I think we're looking at a completely new metagame, at least after a little while. Many decks will be very similar, but Faeries won't be as dominant now as it was then (due to cards like Volcanic Fallout and Great Sable Stag more or less killing the deck in the last days it was legal), opening up a lot of space for more midrangish decks like Doran Doran to compete. Likewise, decks like Naya, which has been in the shadow of Jund for a long time (basically being a really good deck that lost to the most popular deck in the format) will get a chance to shine.
Obviously, Jund and Fae will be good decks in this new format. I'm not arguing that (and I would very much like to see takes on new versions of both decks), but Jund will be holding Fae down with previously mentioned cards, and there will be combo decks holding Jund in leash. Plenty of other decks should be able to emerge, even decks that didn't have the proper tools, or had a bad metagame position the first time around.
I, for one, am going to look over my shoulder for Lark combo and the Cascade combo decks that will pop up - and I would very much like everyones help in working out what exactly we should be preparing for.
Comment to the card Nurturer Initiate: [QUOTE=phaseshifter;15594671]She can suck as much as she wants, she's hot
Edit:.....wow, I just realised what I just said...[/QUOTE] --------- [QUOTE=reedbee]I can't count on both hands the number of times I've woken up next to a gorgeous girl after she came up to me and asked to get a better look at my Wumpus.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Beanman1000;17774354]Naw man, you just walk around with a messenger bag with a trade binder and some decks, then use amazing magic pick up lines like "Hey baby, I'd tap that" and "Hey honey, wanna see me use giant growth?"[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Dr_Kraid;18066052]I want to be banned for laying my ween0r on my opponent's deck and posting pictures on the Internet [/QUOTE] ---- On Master Transmuter: [QUOTE=namdoolb;18132994]Nah, I'd rather send her packing on my flame javelin .[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Caldera42;14735749]And I'm not a jerk to myself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Islands;14771286]You're missing out.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Axl_Strife;17032267]I'm Matt Gottlieb b*tch! *banhammer*[/QUOTE]
Moral of the story... Serra is the kind of angel you marry... She's very loyal and always there for you both to attack or block. BSA... Well, she's the kind you call up every now and then to do all those things Serra won't do on some random Friday night.
[QUOTE=Momo;17971299]Actually you win, sir.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sisomic;17973044]A "You win, sir." from Momo is worth 10 zillion dabloons. If only you could sell it...[/QUOTE]
There were others - this one was just the only one that mattered.
Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession Check out the first one of my songs to be recorded by my Jazz/Fusion/whatever-band. Critique is welcome - just send me a PM or something.
Theres a big diference between 4 and 7 especially when you consider that in the last 7 years we have had combo decks and card that create combos unlike what you have in lorwyn forward which have all been fairly straight forward control/agro decks.
Also your post pretty much backed mine as all of your examples are top decks of the last few season and they seem to be your main concern.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
Theres a big diference between 4 and 7 especially when you consider that in the last 7 years we have had combo decks and card that create combos unlike what you have in lorwyn forward which have all been fairly straight forward control/agro decks.
Also your post pretty much backed mine as all of your examples are top decks of the last few season and they seem to be your main concern.
Dude... not cool.
I'm trying to do everyone a favour here. I want this new format to be fun - I want it to inspire discussions as to a new metagame. With this thread, I want to help people to start thinking about how to counter Jund with their Mystical Teachings control. I want to help people enjoy discussing the viability of archetypes, new as old.
What I don't want is this thread derailing into pro-change and anti-change. I repeat, that is not the purpose of this thread! If that is what you wish to discuss, fine. There are plenty of threads about that (one of which you started yourself, bughferd, so you should know). Go there.
God knows, I tried to do this subtly the first time.
...so, anyone want to discuss the new metagame coming up?
Comment to the card Nurturer Initiate: [QUOTE=phaseshifter;15594671]She can suck as much as she wants, she's hot
Edit:.....wow, I just realised what I just said...[/QUOTE] --------- [QUOTE=reedbee]I can't count on both hands the number of times I've woken up next to a gorgeous girl after she came up to me and asked to get a better look at my Wumpus.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Beanman1000;17774354]Naw man, you just walk around with a messenger bag with a trade binder and some decks, then use amazing magic pick up lines like "Hey baby, I'd tap that" and "Hey honey, wanna see me use giant growth?"[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Dr_Kraid;18066052]I want to be banned for laying my ween0r on my opponent's deck and posting pictures on the Internet [/QUOTE] ---- On Master Transmuter: [QUOTE=namdoolb;18132994]Nah, I'd rather send her packing on my flame javelin .[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Caldera42;14735749]And I'm not a jerk to myself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Islands;14771286]You're missing out.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Axl_Strife;17032267]I'm Matt Gottlieb b*tch! *banhammer*[/QUOTE]
Moral of the story... Serra is the kind of angel you marry... She's very loyal and always there for you both to attack or block. BSA... Well, she's the kind you call up every now and then to do all those things Serra won't do on some random Friday night.
[QUOTE=Momo;17971299]Actually you win, sir.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sisomic;17973044]A "You win, sir." from Momo is worth 10 zillion dabloons. If only you could sell it...[/QUOTE]
There were others - this one was just the only one that mattered.
Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession Check out the first one of my songs to be recorded by my Jazz/Fusion/whatever-band. Critique is welcome - just send me a PM or something.
Comment to the card Nurturer Initiate: [QUOTE=phaseshifter;15594671]She can suck as much as she wants, she's hot
Edit:.....wow, I just realised what I just said...[/QUOTE] --------- [QUOTE=reedbee]I can't count on both hands the number of times I've woken up next to a gorgeous girl after she came up to me and asked to get a better look at my Wumpus.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Beanman1000;17774354]Naw man, you just walk around with a messenger bag with a trade binder and some decks, then use amazing magic pick up lines like "Hey baby, I'd tap that" and "Hey honey, wanna see me use giant growth?"[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Dr_Kraid;18066052]I want to be banned for laying my ween0r on my opponent's deck and posting pictures on the Internet [/QUOTE] ---- On Master Transmuter: [QUOTE=namdoolb;18132994]Nah, I'd rather send her packing on my flame javelin .[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Caldera42;14735749]And I'm not a jerk to myself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Islands;14771286]You're missing out.[/QUOTE] ---- [QUOTE=Axl_Strife;17032267]I'm Matt Gottlieb b*tch! *banhammer*[/QUOTE]
Moral of the story... Serra is the kind of angel you marry... She's very loyal and always there for you both to attack or block. BSA... Well, she's the kind you call up every now and then to do all those things Serra won't do on some random Friday night.
[QUOTE=Momo;17971299]Actually you win, sir.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sisomic;17973044]A "You win, sir." from Momo is worth 10 zillion dabloons. If only you could sell it...[/QUOTE]
There were others - this one was just the only one that mattered.
Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession Check out the first one of my songs to be recorded by my Jazz/Fusion/whatever-band. Critique is welcome - just send me a PM or something.
Theres a big diference between 4 and 7 especially when you consider that in the last 7 years we have had combo decks and card that create combos unlike what you have in lorwyn forward which have all been fairly straight forward control/agro decks.
Also your post pretty much backed mine as all of your examples are top decks of the last few season and they seem to be your main concern.
Dude... not cool.
I'm trying to do everyone a favour here. I want this new format to be fun - I want it to inspire discussions as to a new metagame. With this thread, I want to help people to start thinking about how to counter Jund with their Mystical Teachings control. I want to help people enjoy discussing the viability of archetypes, new as old.
What I don't want is this thread derailing into pro-change and anti-change. I repeat, that is not the purpose of this thread! If that is what you wish to discuss, fine. There are plenty of threads about that (one of which you started yourself, bughferd, so you should know). Go there.
God knows, I tried to do this subtly the first time.
...so, anyone want to discuss the new metagame coming up?
This isn't even about that this is simply look at the last 4 years and pick the top decks and you have the meta game as of now unless you have a time machine and can go forward in time to tell us what it will look like all we can say is what the top decks of standard have been for the last 4 years and you even support this yourself as all the decks you cite are top decks of the last 4 years.
I don't see how this is pro or anti change this is simply what it is.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
I for one am looking forward to seeing a Mystic Teaching deck emerge. My fear is that someone will make a working list only to have it go away in a few months.
For some reason playing Teferi and Jace2 in the same deck causes me to salivate.
Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this.
[/QUOTE]
