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3 years ago ::
May 22, 2010 - 11:29PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2007
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If I am understanding correctly, you are confusing "effect" with "spell or ability." A replacement effect that causes an action to replace a game action does indeed constitute an "effect" for something that looks for an effect causing something, because the replacement effect caused it. Not all effects come during the resolution of spells or abilities--some can come during the replacement of a game action.
Disclaimer: I'm fairly sure about this, though I admit I may be wrong. We'll find out soon enough, I suppose.
I know Void Maw  was given errata because replacement effects didn't actually do anything (and then it was removed when a rule was added that made its printed ability shorthand for something that does work). I don't remember hearing about that changing, but I certainly could have missed something.
The effect doesn't have to do anything directly to cause something to happen. By replacing the event with another event, the effect possibly causes something else to happen (such as putting a token into play), so I'm fairly sure that things that look for "caused by effect" will see it. Again, could be wrong, so we'll see when some [o] source peeks in.
MTG Rules Advisor 
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3 years ago ::
May 23, 2010 - 5:28PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2007
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The effect doesn't have to do anything directly to cause something to happen. By replacing the event with another event, the effect possibly causes something else to happen (such as putting a token into play), so I'm fairly sure that things that look for "caused by effect" will see it. Again, could be wrong, so we'll see when some [o] source peeks in.
I agree that what you say is a reasonable interpretation.
The life gain is happening because of a one-shot... um, event ...that has replaced another thanks to the existence of a continuous effect. IMO, the continuous effect may or may not be said to have caused the replaced part of the event, and we don't know which is true just looking at the CR.
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3 years ago ::
May 25, 2010 - 10:39AM
#53
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- Niftily helpful
- DCI Level 2 Judge
Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
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I think you misinterpreted what I meant, I mean that just because a game action (which aren't effects) got replaced (replacement effects replace events, which game actions certainly are) does not mean that game action somehow became an effect in it of itself. (In fact, to my understanding it remains a game action, but the event is something other than it usually is)
That's my understanding too; I think Words of Wilding  + Doubling Season  + (the draw step) doesn't combo. We could both be wrong though....
The combo doesn't work. Ultimately, it's a turn-based action causing the draw. Just because that draw is replaced by doing something else doesn't mean it not a turn-based action, so replacing the draw from your draw step with the Words ability will not cause the Season to put an extra token on the battlefield.
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DCI Level 2 Judge
Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.
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3 years ago ::
May 25, 2010 - 12:29PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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So what you're saying is the replacement effect causes the turn-based action to put a token into play. The replacement effect does not itself put the token into play. So, since the token isn't being put into play by an effect, but rather by a turn-based action, Doubling Season ignores it.
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3 years ago ::
May 25, 2010 - 1:26PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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The replacement effect does not itself put the token into play.
And this is true of all replacement effects. They don't do anything on their own, they change whatever was supposed to happen caused by whatever caused it.
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3 years ago ::
May 25, 2010 - 1:53PM
#56
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The replacement effect does not itself put the token into play.
And this is true of all replacement effects. They don't do anything on their own, they change whatever was supposed to happen caused by whatever caused it.
That's what I thought, so yea my earlier point stands then, 117.3 needs to be reworded since this is true to cover cases of a game-action being replaced with lifegain. (Assuming one can engineer this scenario, it should be easy I would think)
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3 years ago ::
May 25, 2010 - 2:28PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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That's what I thought, so yea my earlier point stands then, 117.3 needs to be reworded since this is true to cover cases of a game-action being replaced with lifegain. (Assuming one can engineer this scenario, it should be easy I would think)
This forum desparately needs an autocard-style tag that works with comp. rule section numbers. 
And you're right, 117.3 (and 117.5) don't allow for the possibility that something that's not an effect can cause life gain/loss. However, these rules also seem unnecessary, rather akin to saying "to get the sum of two numbers, add them together".
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