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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:42AM
#31
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I don't care how much data they have...
In other words, you don't care about reality, you just want to have your already-formed opinion validated. It really is you who is stuck in your own little world, not MaRo.
There are many aspects to the game that are more confusing than X spells - and many players are confused by them as well. What you've failed to grasp is that many of those aspects don't need to be understood by novice players. They can play perfectly well just by doing what the cards say, and most of the time they'll get it right. One of the primary goals Wizards has is to make the game accessible to new players by concealing the complexity from them until they're ready to handle it. Printing complex cards at higher rarities is one way they achieve that.
No, I am saying his data is completely wrong, though I could see where it sounded like that. They might have had a sample size that was too small. Or they may have just asked straight up idiots and not your average joe. Yes, Maro is in his own little world. He has consistantly made false, misleading, and sometimes flat out wrong statements.
No they can't. I can't even begin to convcieve how many times I have played with people that don't understand the rule and found that they were having botched games due to misinterpritations. Or games in which one card is highly overpowered (using thier misinterpreted rules) due to lack of comprehension of rules.
No, that won't do it at all. In a playgroup of three people, and with fireball at uncommon, how long do you think it will take for one of them to pull fireball and use it?
Simply put, what it comes down to is...
If you are older than 14 and can not comprehend Heat Ray then you are really stupid. You don't need to be playing magic in the first place.
You can play this "we are tryign to make it more comprehendable" game all day long, but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of X spells are very easily comprehended by anyone with a brain that has graduated middle school.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:46AM
#32
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I don't care how much data they have...
In other words, you don't care about reality, you just want to have your already-formed opinion validated. It really is you who is stuck in your own little world, not MaRo.
There are many aspects to the game that are more confusing than X spells - and many players are confused by them as well. What you've failed to grasp is that many of those aspects don't need to be understood by novice players. They can play perfectly well just by doing what the cards say, and most of the time they'll get it right. One of the primary goals Wizards has is to make the game accessible to new players by concealing the complexity from them until they're ready to handle it. Printing complex cards at higher rarities is one way they achieve that.
No, I am saying his data is completely wrong, though I could see where it sounded like that. They might have had a sample size that was too small. Or they may have just asked straight up idiots and not your average joe. Yes, Maro is in his own little world. He has consistantly made false, misleading, and sometimes flat out wrong statements.
No they can't. I can't even begin to convcieve how many times I have played with people that don't understand the rule and found that they were having botched games due to misinterpritations. Or games in which one card is highly overpowered (using thier misinterpreted rules) due to lack of comprehension of rules.
No, that won't do it at all. In a playgroup of three people, and with fireball at uncommon, how long do you think it will take for one of them to pull fireball and use it?
Simply put, what it comes down to is...
If you are older than 14 and can not comprehend Heat Ray then you are really stupid. You don't need to be playing magic in the first place.
You can play this "we are tryign to make it more comprehendable" game all day long, but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of X spells are very easily comprehended by anyone with a brain that has graduated middle school.
Hahahahahaha you are really really really dense 
I'm not even going to try to say everything that has been said to you in an even easier way
EDIT: ok fine maybe you want to read this: False Consensus Effect
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_ef...
As an extension, when confronted with evidence that a consensus does not exist, people often assume that the others who do not agree with them are defective in some way.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 10:50AM
#33
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Not sure why we're complaining about the X spell comment.. the card got printed, right?
And it's not like Wizards stopped making X spells.. they just normally put them at uncommon or rare.
We still have cards like Gelatinous Genesis, or Comet Storm from the last set, which ARE pretty tough to evaluate vs. other cards. At what mana level are these cards good? Imagine having to do these kinds of evaluations for the first time, during a draft..
The difficulty of X spells isn't in how to play them.. it's in card evaluation and deck construction. Where do these cards belong in your "curve"?
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 1:11PM
#34
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I don't care how much data they have...
In other words, you don't care about reality, you just want to have your already-formed opinion validated. It really is you who is stuck in your own little world, not MaRo.
There are many aspects to the game that are more confusing than X spells - and many players are confused by them as well. What you've failed to grasp is that many of those aspects don't need to be understood by novice players. They can play perfectly well just by doing what the cards say, and most of the time they'll get it right. One of the primary goals Wizards has is to make the game accessible to new players by concealing the complexity from them until they're ready to handle it. Printing complex cards at higher rarities is one way they achieve that.
No, I am saying his data is completely wrong, though I could see where it sounded like that. They might have had a sample size that was too small. Or they may have just asked straight up idiots and not your average joe. Yes, Maro is in his own little world. He has consistantly made false, misleading, and sometimes flat out wrong statements.
No they can't. I can't even begin to convcieve how many times I have played with people that don't understand the rule and found that they were having botched games due to misinterpritations. Or games in which one card is highly overpowered (using thier misinterpreted rules) due to lack of comprehension of rules.
No, that won't do it at all. In a playgroup of three people, and with fireball at uncommon, how long do you think it will take for one of them to pull fireball and use it?
Simply put, what it comes down to is...
If you are older than 14 and can not comprehend Heat Ray then you are really stupid. You don't need to be playing magic in the first place.
You can play this "we are tryign to make it more comprehendable" game all day long, but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of X spells are very easily comprehended by anyone with a brain that has graduated middle school.
Hahahahahaha you are really really really dense
I'm not even going to try to say everything that has been said to you in an even easier way
EDIT: ok fine maybe you want to read this: False Consensus Effect
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_ef...
As an extension, when confronted with evidence that a consensus does not exist, people often assume that the others who do not agree with them are defective in some way.
Troll alert.
Maybe I am projecting. Maybe I am projecting because I have faith in humanity that its not so stupid as to not understand statements such as....
"Choose a number for X where X is < or = to the number of resources you have."
Well you would have to be defective not to understand the majority of X spells.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 1:36PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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You'll notice that in Rise of the Eldrazi bounce (cards that put permanents back into their owner's hands) are light both in quantity and in quality. The reason for this is that the set is all about getting giant creature onto the battlefield. Plentiful and cheap bounce spells makes such an environment hard to build, so by necessity we excised most of it from the set.
Wise decision, but I do like that you left at least one well-balanced common for people to realize the power of bounce in this format. Between the Eldrazi, which are most often cast thanks to Spawn sacrificing the first time around and can't be re-cast immediatly if bounced, to levelers, to Totem Armor auras enchanted creatures, bounce is several times better in this environment than in any other format.
Regress  is an interesting choice as compared to Boomerang  ; it is splashable, and good players will get rewarded by recognizing that it is one of the set's best commons and splash it in their Limited decks. From an other point of view, one could say that Boomerang would have been the better choice as only real blue decks would have been able to use its power. Well, either way, as long as it's not Unsummon  , which would be busted in RoE limited, I'm fine with it.
(about Heat Ray)The design team put this repeat in at common because it matched their goal of removal that was good but worse at destroying larger creatures. The card was so beloved by so many on the design and development teams that it stayed at common even though it was an  spell.
Worse at destroying larger creatures? What are you talking about? It's at least much better at destroying larger creatures than almost any burn spell that deals a set amount of damage. True, it costs a lot of mana to do it, but if you kill a fatty with it, that fatty most likely costed a lot of mana too, and the mere fact that it is possible gives red a very welcome answer to Eldrazi at common, and I'm pretty sure that's in great part why R&D loved it so much. Being an instant also makes it great for responding to leveling up and auras. The card really is a perfect fit for the format and I am very glad that it was kept at common, despite the complexity issues it has.
 Magic The Gathering DCI Rules Advisor Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 1:40PM
#36
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Well, either way, as long as it's not Unsummon , which would be busted in RoE limited, I'm fine with it.
Not really.
Most of the Eladrazi do funky stuff just from casting them. A bounce spell just means the funk happens twice.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 2:11PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
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[On the article: I'd been hoping for a mention of why Glory Seeker and Knight of Cliffhaven are both in the set, but ah well.
Apparently they are blending the purposes of the Core Set vs Advanced Sets - now both contain new cards and both contain within themselves cards that people can "learn" the game with. Oh, look, *this* card is clearly superior to *that* card despite being essentially the same thing. I should replace those cards with copies of this in my deck to make it better.
Once upon a time the packaging for block sets stated on it that they were recommended for Advanced players, and the core sets had packaging and inserts indicating that they were for beginners. Apparently they have abandoned this approach and the Core Set is just the fourth set in a block with a higher occurance of reprints.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 2:31PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
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EDIT: ok fine maybe you want to read this: False Consensus Effect
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_ef...
As an extension, when confronted with evidence that a consensus does not exist, people often assume that the others who do not agree with them are defective in some way.
Maybe I am projecting. Maybe I am projecting because I have faith in humanity that its not so stupid as to not understand statements such as....
"Choose a number for X where X is < or = to the number of resources you have."
Well you would have to be defective not to understand the majority of X spells.
Re: False Consensus... LOL good one.
Re: Understanding X Spells
The Decline of Western Civilization is well on its way. Sorry.
There are entire generations of Americans (Gen X and Y, and most likely their children) who commonly fail to name all 50 states or pick out commonly known European countries on a globe. Who can't do math in their heads and who have no concept of history beyond Y2K, who have no knowledge of current events beyond what (insert Teenage Starlet of the Week) is doing and with whom.
It is not at all surprising that a significant minority of Magic players are confused by cards in which there is a variable effect or specific decisions to make beyond choosing targets. Just browse these forums for questions about deckbuilding and card interactions and rulings. Most such questions could be answered without posting by looking up the rulings in Gatherer but people ask anyway. Or build and play decks based on mistaken assumptions, like building a Death's Shadow/Ad Nauseum deck with Abyssal Persecutor and using it to go to -7 life then attack for the win.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 3:33PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2009
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Interesting conversation.  I can see exactly where HippySpec's perspective is coming from. I personally think that it is rather sad that it appears that individuals who first start playing Magic somehow are considered to be less intelligent than the average human being. The fact that variables is an undeniably common part of every highschool curriculum, at even the most basic level, should be more than sufficent. If there is still a problem, wouldn't a short reminder text solve it immediately? (ex. Choose a Number. "X" is that number). Oh, look! Instant comprehension of the card and its ability without some form of ridiculous design reasoning... Similarly, those of you who are relying on market data should realize that said data is extremely unflexible and narrow. Any sort of statistic can be manipulated or misunderstood and intervening and/or abscent variables is always a possibility. Before lending your voice in support of "market data" you might want to first observe that data for yourself instead of just blindly assuming it is valid. "Statistics show..." is probably one of the most common ways of getting people to absentmindedly jump on your "band-wagon." Toby: Not only are you unmeritably using "False Consensus Effect" (which =/= uncompromising disagreement)... you also attempted to arrogantly reference it using wikipedia... which diminshes the credibility of your knowledge and only exemplifies your unneccesary douchebaggery, to say the least. It would be nice to appreciate the constructive elements people point out instead of excessively nitpicking them... ...Kthx. --- Dear Mark
How about an article on why you design rarity=power now.
Thanks
HWM
Seconded. I believe that this is an entirely relevant DESIGN problem for the DESIGN column.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 3:55PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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if you are going to tell me that levelers are less complicated than X spells then I am going to laugh at you. Even protection, regeneration, and persist, are more complicated than X spells. These are all abilities that I've had to explain over and over again but at most I've explained X to someone one time . fireball  is needlessly complicated but most X spells are very easy to understand. Plus as others have mentioned the difference between uncommon and common only affects players in limited. In constructed you'll see a higher concentration of good spells so fireball will be much more common than shock  even in casual constructed decks. I have taught 20+ people how to play and not one of them has had a problem with X spells. My 10 year old daughter who can not get the hang of tideforce elemental  , and when to kick her multikicker spells knows how to cast blaze  and consume spirit  just fine. She had some trouble with gelatinous genesis  (she understood it when I explained it to her though) but no trouble with conflagrate  or martial coup  . Like others have mentioned I am very skeptical about this "market reasearch". How are they quizzing these people who don't visit the webpage (most who do will quickly learn the rules), and don't attend tournaments (once again someone will inform them of the proper way to play X spells). I know they used to put survey's into fat packs and maybe it's research from those surveys I don't know but like I said I am in disbelief that anyone could think that Level counters are less complicated than X spells.
Don't be too smart to have fun
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