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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:40PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
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Does that sound like a fun game?
It's loads of fun, and it's called "Legacy" 
(Ok, not really. Shortcuts are an integral part of magic. So is step-by-step priority passing. Experienced players know when to use one, and when to use the other so the game flows smoothly.)
Gerdef
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:41PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2007
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heh, who cares about casual play right? and saying this isnt an issue is kinda odd, seeing as how were posting in a thread about it
Just because YOU have an issue with it, doesn't make it an issue.
Go ahead and properly announce EVERY priority pass and see how fun your "casual" play becomes.
Have you actually tried this? I know the normal wisdom is that announcing every priority change is mind-numbingly slow and tedious, but is it really? I mean, all it means is saying "response?" and "I'd like to enter combat" and stuff like that every so often.
I haven't tried it myself, but when I think about it, it doesn't seem that bad.
yes, I've tried it, it's called Magic Online. Have you played a six player game online? Fortunately (sometimes unfortunately), they have a nice function keyed to F6.
MtG Rules Advisor &
Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJDJ VortexDCI Certified Rules Advisor from July 14, 2009 to July 14, 2012 DCI #5209514320 Wit found in Rules Q&ARPJesus: "Man, screw the rules, I'll play a game of 2HG Archenemy Planechase Emperor EDH draft yet. Once I figure out the rules for it..." Chaikov: "Of course, casual Magic may be played any way your Pokemon group agrees on..." and "It's not logic. It's Magic!" GainsBanding: "I only play online. The Magic Online shuffler is AWESOME!" Ikegami: "one might think [adult cats] would make excellent tokens. The issue, though, is that they are very hard to exile. They return to the battlefield more often than an undying creature." Astarael7: "Does 121.1 imply that players are supposed to wear their poison counters?" Bimmerbot: "If you move the wrong way and [the poison counters] fall, it's a game rule violation" Helluminatus: "Just remember, if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but the oracle text says creature - Bunny , then by god, it's a bunny." MadCow21: "Who are you and what have you done with the real Chaikov?" My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:42PM
#23
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im not suggesting this be put into the rules, im only saying that the only way right now to settle this and have a ruling thats effective 100% of the time is to make it manditory..in EVERY setting of magic
There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to make it mandatory. The rules are already very clear about this scenario, and the solution is to announce your Beginning of Combat Step. If you want to do that, go for it, but there is no reason for it to be mandatory for the rest of us!
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:43PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2004
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im not suggesting this be put into the rules, im only saying that the only way right now to settle this and have a ruling thats effective 100% of the time is to make it manditory..in EVERY setting of magic
No, that is not true. At present, the rules are very clear and are enforced consistently across the world at events large and small. This is not a problem in the real world. When thousands of dollars are on the line, these rules are good enough to ensure a fair outcome every time.
DCI Level 2 Judge
WPN Advanced TO
RPGA Herald-Level GM
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:45PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2009
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im not suggesting this be put into the rules, im only saying that the only way right now to settle this and have a ruling thats effective 100% of the time is to make it manditory..in EVERY setting of magic
There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to make it mandatory. The rules are already very clear about this scenario, and the solution is to announce your Beginning of Combat Step. If you want to do that, go for it, but there is no reason for it to be mandatory for the rest of us!
fight the power! again, this isnt an issue for me, the problem is people that are stuck in this scenario cant look to the rulebook to resolve it in real time
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:47PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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heh, who cares about casual play right? and saying this isnt an issue is kinda odd, seeing as how were posting in a thread about it
My CASUAL table announces beginning of combat. There's too high a likelihood that someone wants to do something to just skip straight to the turning-sideways part. (This does not mean we explicitly pass priority at each point, it just means that the particular shortcut of skipping to declaring attackers is declined often enough by the defender that it's not generally used at our table.)
In any event, if the attacker does offer the shortcut of skipping to declare attackers, and proceeds to tap to attack without an opportunity for the defender to perform actions in beginning of combat, then he is perfectly within his right to rewind the game to that point. The shortcut is declined, the attackers are returned to their original position, and people cast / do stuff until they're ready to proceed. The attacker is under no obligation to keep his original choice of attackers if the defender did anything at all; he could ultimately decline to name a single attacker.
The argument that "he could have done it in main" is invalid; the defender is also perfectly within his rights to see what sorcery-timing events (such as, say, a big fatty with Haste) his opponent may be casting before he makes his combat-affecting choices.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:48PM
#27
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besides that, the only phase you would have to declare is entering combat.. thats the problem here
Uh, no, there are all kinds of "advanced" plays that people want to do during your opponents upkeep or during the declare attackers/blockers steps, the end step, etc. EVERY priority pass is there for a reason, beacause there are some scenarios where you want to act. If you propose that this particular one be announced every single time, then all of the others should be as well.
fight the power! again, this isnt an issue for me, the problem is people that are stuck in this scenario cant look to the rulebook to resolve it in real time
WTF. This argument could be made for every rule in the entire comprehensive rulebook! The game has rules, if that's a problem for you, you're playing the wrong game.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:50PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
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I've never seen it become much of an issue.
Usually people play with shortcuts all the time, until someone has to be backed up, and then they given their opponent opportunity to react, now that they know it's relevant.
e.g. Against a blue player, I just tap my guys to signal their attack. Once they back me up and use something like Cryptic Command, on future turns I will do the "declare attacks?"
Gerdef
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:51PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2009
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besides that, the only phase you would have to declare is entering combat.. thats the problem here
Uh, no, there are all kinds of "advanced" plays that people want to do during your opponents upkeep or during the declare attackers/blockers steps, the end step, etc. EVERY priority pass is there for a reason, beacause there are some scenarios where you want to act. If you propose that this particular one be announced every single time, then all of the others should be as well.
fight the power! again, this isnt an issue for me, the problem is people that are stuck in this scenario cant look to the rulebook to resolve it in real time
WTF. This argument could be made for every rule in the entire comprehensive rulebook! The game has rules, if that's a problem for you, you're playing the wrong game.
ugh, when players get confused about cards/steps/the stack or anything else they can look it up and find an answer thats 100% in favor of one side the arguement, since the OP, (which we seem to have forgot) about was attacking and didnt have to declare combat, this situation arose and they can both argue endlessly with eachother because niether of them is wrong or right
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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 3:56PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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since the OP, (which we seem to have forgot) about was attacking and didnt have to declare combat, this situation arose and they can both argue endlessly with eachother because niether of them is wrong or right
Well, the OP was wrong in that, no, his opponent did not have to do it in his initial main phase. There was an additional step that was skipped.
The question of "how much of a pause constitutes acceptance of the shortcut" is not something that will be answered here, or in the rulebook, except that I'm not certain the OP was even aware of the "Beginning of Combat" step, before "Declare Attackers", in the Combat Phase.
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