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3 years ago ::
Feb 05, 2010 - 9:40AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2009
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I'd like counters that would be flexible enough to put the hurt on early game rushes, while still being somewhat powerful against decks whose main gameplan would be to windmill slam a Cruel Ultimatum on turn 7.
Thank you, this is the type of explanation I've been looking for; I was beginning to think I was articulating my question poorly. Previously I was only seeing two uses for counters: the Counter Deck, and shielding your spells/dudes/face from your opponent (as I described before). I think I could categorize what you said as a third option. To make sure I understand you, you're saying you'd like something that could be played as an Essence Scatter early to screw with tempo, but also be able to potentially Negate a game-ending spell in the late game. Does that sound right?
I'm having trouble deciding what I think of this idea. It sounds reasonable enough in theory. If Magic 2010 had used Mana Leak instead of Cancel, but kept everything else the same, would that achieve what you're wanting? I wonder what that would do to the metagame. In the current format (plus Mana Leak), I worry that it would kill decks that wanted to break the game with big spells - either Cruel Control style decks or pretty much any mana ramp deck - because you would start with Mana Leak and then board in Negate, and seems like too much for those decks to overcome (unless those decks also run blue for counters, but having to run blue in order to compete with blue seems like a step in the wrong direction). Would that kill big-mana-finisher decks? If so, is that okay? You've got me pondering. Thanks!
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3 years ago ::
Feb 05, 2010 - 9:44AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2009
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Today some jund players argue that the 2 mana drops are just unnecessary.
Add this to my argument that Land Destruction is viable in Standard.  With WWK added to the mix, you can blow up a land on turn 3 every game and seriously punish any deck that's not playing Goblin Guide on turn 1. :D
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3 years ago ::
Feb 05, 2010 - 10:46AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Dec 14, 2008
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Today some jund players argue that the 2 mana drops are just unnecessary.
Add this to my argument that Land Destruction is viable in Standard. With WWK added to the mix, you can blow up a land on turn 3 every game and seriously punish any deck that's not playing Goblin Guide on turn 1. :D
I'm finding with WWK in the mix it's pretty easy to find decks that can handle controll, and midrange, but get slaughtered by aggro.
It's a shame becuase they'll look pretty fun, and i'll test vs Jund or Cruel to great efect, then I give the other player my Boros and there's next to nothing I can do.
I hate straight rock-paper-scisors matchups, especally becuase the bulk of the format is going away from Jund and beating Eldrazi and Vamps is gonna be key in the next few months.
Blue Land destruction is pretty lol, locking them at 3 lands (which are islands) at you beat them with Turtles.
But Mono Red or RG are probably much better becuase they can establish that turn 3 Runiblaster/Roiling Terrain a lot more offten, then win with Valakut/KHE combo.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 05, 2010 - 11:31AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2009
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But Mono Red or RG are probably much better becuase they can establish that turn 3 Runiblaster/Roiling Terrain a lot more offten, then win with Valakut/KHE combo.
Actually, in RG Land Destruction you win by attacking with the Slimes and Shamblers that you used to blow up their lands. That's part of why the deck works - you don't have to fit a kill into the deck *next to* the land destruction (and risk drawing the wrong things at the wrong time), you just kill them with the things that blew up their lands.
Turn 2 - Rampant Growth/Trace of Abundance/Explore
Turn 3 - Demolish/Goblin Ruinblaster/Roiling Terrain
Turn 4 - Ditto or Acidic Slime
Turn 5 - Mold Shambler/Acidic Slime OR 4-mana land kill and another ramp
Meanwhile, they haven't cast anything, and you have dudes to swing with.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 15, 2010 - 12:14PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2010
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Would someone mind explaining the Scapeshift / Valakut combo? I've seen this discussed a few places now but don't quite get how it causes 18 damage. "With seven lands on the battlefield, this deck can cast ..."OpenTip(event, "Scapeshift")" href="...:autoCardWindow('Scapeshift')" style="outline-width: 0px; outline-style: initial; outline-color: initial; font-size: 12px; color: #990000; text-decoration: none; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px initial initial;">Scapeshift to find ..."OpenTip(event, "Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle")" href="...:autoCardWindow('Valakut,_the_Molten_Pinnacle')" style="outline-width: 0px; outline-style: initial; outline-color: initial; font-size: 12px; color: #990000; text-decoration: none; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px initial initial;">Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and six ..."OpenTip(event, "Mountain")" href="...:autoCardWindow('Mountain')" style="outline-width: 0px; outline-style: initial; outline-color: initial; font-size: 12px; color: #990000; text-decoration: none; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px initial initial;">Mountains to hit the opponent for 18." Wouldn't the first 5 mountains do nothing (because Valakut requires 5 mountains under control) and only the sixth would do 3 damage, for a total of....3? I'm sure there's a finer point I'm missing and if someone would gently point out the error in my thinking it would be appreciated
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3 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2010 - 1:22AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Dec 14, 2008
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The way the game sees it, all 6 Mountians are Mountian #6, so each one does its 3 damage.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2010 - 6:01AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2008
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Playing Treasure Hunt "on its own" (not as a combo enabler) will likely average out to be better than Sign in Blood; it will draw you two cards more often than it draws you one, it's easier to cast, it costs you no life, and - this is important - you will ALWAYS draw a spell.
Treasure Hunt  , from the standpoint of Standard constructed play, is in no way comparable to Sign in Blood. The life loss of Sign in Blood is negligible, else people would not have played with Thoughtseize or Putrid Leech.
In Standard, drawing a bunch of lands will probably lead to a game loss. So it doesn't matter if you draw two with Sign in Blood or 10 with Treasure Hunt.
Treasure Hunt is reasonable in Extended, if one is playing Swans, or maybe it could fit in Scapeshift, I'm not sure.
It's good in Legacy, in the 42Land.dec.
There is land destruction in Standard. I'll hedge my bets and say it probably won't win a Pro Tour, but it does exist.
I think he was leaning more toward the playable land destruction as opposed to a card that happened to say "destroy target land."
Currently, in R/G, there are three 2-mana accelerators and three 4-mana land kills (followed then by Acidic Slime and Mold Shambler as you curve up). You can consistently destroy a land on turns 3-6, and by that time you've probably got the game (especially if you're also splashing white for Ajani Vengeant).
Currently, a deck full of mana accelerators, curving out on land destruction spells, and Ajani Vengeant isn't a very good idea.
"It seems ridiculous to me that a playworthy blue card with constructed potential shows up and you immediately make predictions about the coming dominance of blue in standard."
Please, don't become a hypocrite by over-compensating.
I don't feel as if he was overcompensating. A card that is unusable in Standard, okay in extended, and good in Legacy (in one deck) just won't be a "broken" card. And it won't do anything for blue.
I can´t play Cancel.
We have to. We just have to.
I read Tom's article on more than one occasion, and that's basically what he was saying. Play with Cancel, because a turn 1 Nix  followed by a turn 2 Daze  followed by a turn 3 Sage's Dousing  is just unfun for people. My thing is, so what? Let them figure it out.
If your opponent goes "counter, counter, counter" to everything you do, just go "manland, manland, manland, discard, discard, discard, unearth, unearth, unearth" and swing for the fences. Or curve with a turn 2 Vexing Shusher  into Great Sable Stag  into Spellbreaker Behemoth  , then Timmy is free to resolve Krosan Cloudscraper  after Krosan Cloudscraper with no problems.
Also, a couple of writers have written dismissively of Treasure hunt getting you only one spell and land. But no one has mentioned this is the land set. Some decks are going to want to activate landfall, I do think that this card is going to prove to be too strong.
Yes, this is a land set. But in and of themselves, and only counting Standard, the lands are okay, at best. Meaning, it really doesn't matter how many you can draw in a turn. And most of them don't even do anything all that impressive, or anything that really matters all that much to the outcome of a game.
And this card really won't prove to be too strong, unless something broken comes out in the next set.
Also, the decks that take the most advantage of Landfall don't want to play with this card.
The way the game sees it, all 6 Mountians are Mountian #6, so each one does its 3 damage.
Wait, what?
I showed the deck to a friend, and I know that it does work. But he asked me to explain how it worked by the rules, and I was at a loss.
Doesn't Smother kill tokens? According to rule 202.3a?
202.3a - The converted mana cost of an object with no mana cost is 0. [CompRules 2009/07/08]
Or have I missed something? It should kill manlands, too, since they technically have no mana cost.
You did miss something. To a token, Unsummon is equivalent or better than Path to Exile.
Orzhova Witness Restarting Quotes Block
Show
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2010 - 9:24AM
#28
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The way the game sees it, all 6 Mountians are Mountian #6, so each one does its 3 damage.
Wait, what?
I showed the deck to a friend, and I know that it does work. But he asked me to explain how it worked by the rules, and I was at a loss.
When an effect puts more than one permanent onto the battlefield, they enter the battlefield at the same time. once they arrive on the battlefield, they trigger valakut 6 times, and valakut sees that you control enough mountains, and you may deal the damage. it wouldn't make sense for one mountain to deal the damage, because none of the mountains arrive before any other mountains. by the time valakut sees there are any mountains and triggers, you already control enough mountains for it to deal the damage.
Doesn't Smother kill tokens? According to rule 202.3a?
202.3a - The converted mana cost of an object with no mana cost is 0. [CompRules 2009/07/08]
Or have I missed something? It should kill manlands, too, since they technically have no mana cost.
You did miss something. To a token, Unsummon is equivalent or better than Path to Exile.
i think i missed something, because he's right that smother kills tokens and man lands. so what exactly are you trying to say to him? his thought that smother worked on marit lage has been corrected for a long time.
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