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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 7:29AM
#11
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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I have my thoughts on the subject, and they mimic the thoughts in this article. Every deck is multicolored so strategy is disappearing since everyone is being routed into the same decks. The other concern would be the presense of massivly expensive Mythic Rares (baneslayer, planeswalkers) and preview cards that make it look like it's not going to get any better.
Here are the major reasons players don't jump immediately into tournaments, and/or don't stay there long:
- The vast majority of players just don't care
Sure, the great unwashed masses may participate in an informal local "tourney" from time to time, but the idea of driving a couple of hours (or more) to play Magic in a room full of sweaty guys is not a high priority, or players find it just plain distasteful to drive all that way just to get pummeled repeatedly by pretty much the same deck.
- Everyone just plays the same thing
I can't just cobble together some goofy themedeck and expect to do any good. Hell, I can't even refine that themedeck into the best it can be, because its best just isn't good enough if I happened to have picked the "wrong" theme. When the best cards are much better than the next-best cards, it makes the best decks much better than the next-best decks, and magnitudes better than the average "themed" deck. May as well scrap my current investment and assemble that deck everyone else is playing - it seems to win a bit.
- It's too damned expensive
When my "pet deck" is just not good enough to keep me from driving two hours just to go 0-2 (drop), I'm going to have to build a better deck. When I find out that better deck is going to cost me $200 for just my lands, and another $80 for a playset of a critical rare and another $200 for a playset of a critical Mythic rare, I'm probably better off just buying a Xbox and several videogames. It'll probably last longer.
- Cards Expire
After spending several hundred dollars for my deck, It turns out those cards are only good for a year or two before they are forcibly retired, or the next set spawns a brand new deck that stomps all over that old one everyone used to play. Now I have to go spend several hundred dollars again, and pray I can carry-over at least half of my previous investment. Sure, I could give Extended, Legacy, or Vintage a try, but chances are very good those cards I spent all that money on for a few mere months of tournaments are dead-on-arrival in any of those formats.
And that, is why 93% of the poll respondents don't participate in GPs.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 7:32AM
#12
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I have to disagree with you guys when you say there is 'no reason' to play monocolored. This simply isn't true. Play a deck like Jund then play a deck like Vamps. Jund gets color screwed a lot and loses a lot of tempo in playing their manabase. Never happens with Vamps. Vamps is probably a worse deck still, but has a huge advantage in its manabase, knowing that it will never be color screwed, and knowing that none of its lands come into play tapped. Also, they do cater to some degree people who want to play mono-colored. Cards like Tendrils and Mind Sludge are very good when you are running a ton of swamps and unplayable when you aren't.
As far as these man-lands go, I think they are awesome, flavorful, and fun. A dual, man-land is something we haven't seen and they seem to be very powerful. To prevent them from being overpowered they always CIPT and the activation costs are a bit expensive. Still, in any sort of control deck they are amazing.
Personally, I think it would actually be better for limited if all of these powerful lands were uncommons. It sucks when you open a rare land in limited, believe me. Also, because rare lands are usually so valuable, people rare draft them. It skews limited. It also makes the cards more expensive on the secondary market than they should be, given that people (obviously) need lands. Wizards should make the rare lands uncommon and use the rare slots for more flashy spells. The refuges from Zendikar were perfect. Also, print at least some decent mana-fixing at common, for Limited and Pauper. The Ravnica karoo lands were perfect. My two cents.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 7:54AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2002
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And that, is why 93% of the poll respondents don't participate in GPs.
First, I want to thank Tom for the explanation including historical context for the man-lands. When I first saw these I wasn't too thrilled TBQH. I can see how these will really help out late-game. I have a concern that because they're rare they are going to end up at $20 which would not be fun but it is what it is.
That 93% of players in this unscientific poll is shocking to me. I would have thought that number would be higher. I guess it is a possible indicator that casual bigger than I thought. I typically don't have to worry about power creep or the metagame. We just play with what few cards we have available.
Also based on the types of articles you see on this site you'd think that 90% of the people play tournaments. It would be nice to see more casual-focused articles here. Maybe talk up Planechase a bit more. When I manage to play with people who have the planar decks it's a blast. Since it's release I haven't heard a peep about it from this site.
Keep the tourney coverage to the various fan sites. It seems that there is way more of that type of talk going on around the internet and at no cost to WotC.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 9:37AM
#14
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There would have been too many lands floating around in drafts that popped out of the land row and beat the crap out of you.
isn't that what a set called "worldwake" should feel like, though? honestly in a set that's supposedly about lands coming to life, how can there even BE "too many" lands beating the crap out of you? i wish they had done some more common and uncommon man lands and balanced them so it wasn't a power issue. is it really that difficult to do that? how hard would it be to have a common and uncommon cycle of man lands with weak enough power/costs for it to work out?
There really is no reason to ever play mono-colored.
that's weird, someone should tell those people paying 14 bucks for vampire nocturnus or running ant queen and eldrazi monument. apparently this guy has the secret tech on why you should stop playing those decks you've been top 8ing with.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 9:56AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2004
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isn't that what a set called "worldwake" should feel like, though? honestly in a set that's supposedly about lands coming to life, how can there even BE "too many" lands beating the crap out of you? i wish they had done some more common and uncommon man lands and balanced them so it wasn't a power issue. is it really that difficult to do that? how hard would it be to have a common and uncommon cycle of man lands with weak enough power/costs for it to work out?
I agree*. Fundamentally, I just think Zendikar-Worldwake didn't do as good a job of making "lands matter" as fallingman's set Verdia did nine months earlier. The manlands there were interesting, the mechanics played around lands rather better than Landfall does, and the in-game feeling was very much caring about what lands you and your opponents played, whether you might have a chance to bounce that land of theirs that's cultivated with an irritating spell, can you get this land to have the right basic land type, which of my lands would be best to attach this Fortification to, and so on. It worked far better than Zendikar at making lands matter.
*: There is the rather big proviso that I haven't yet played with Worldwake. It may - possibly - be that the Zendikons, Dread Statuary and Vastwood Animist are enough to make it feel like a proper "when lands attack" set. That's not the feeling I've got so far, but it may be that play convinces me.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:34AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2009
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On one side, we have a whole team of developers, working together, who make Magic for a living and each individually have impressive resumes of competitive Magic at professional levels. On the other side, we have forum dwellers who make posts which I have taken the liberty of summarizing with the following templates:
"WotC has done ______ wrong, despite their experience, research, talent, and teamwork. I, sitting here alone at my computer, came up with an alternative off the top of my head, and it is clearly superior."
"WotC is making a claim that ________, and has backed it up with historical references. My sole opinion is contrary to this, so clearly WotC is in error."
"WotC believes that card X will be good in either limited or constructed, or both, based on their long years of competitive experience and countless hours of playtesting said card. From my computer I can clearly see that the card is unplayable [or broken]. WotC is mistaken."
Now, it has always been my suspicion that members of WotC's Magic R&D might be more likely to be correct on a topic of disagreement than the forum regulars. However, in the past, that belief has been no more than mere conjecture. Thanks to the poll results posted in this article, I now have statistical evidence that not even 1 in 10 of the people criticizing WotC's decisions or contradicting their claims have any idea what they're talking about. Maybe it was just a lucky guess, but I always thought that Tom LaPille, MaRo, and Aaron Forsythe might understand Magic a little better than the forum dwellers. Looks like I was right after all! Thanks, Tom!
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:49AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2004
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Because clearly broken cards have no effect anywhere except in tournaments?
(Mind you, I agree that most whiners about specific cards' power levels are talking out of orifices not designed for it. I just don't agree that "doesn't go to tournaments in the past 3 months" is the same as "has no idea what they're talking about", or for that matter that "votes in Tom's poll" is the same as "posts in the forums" - there have been several polls on this site where the vocal majority in the forums are of one opinion, but the voting majority on the poll is the other way.)
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 10:58AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2009
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Because clearly broken cards have no effect anywhere except in tournaments?
(Mind you, I agree that most whiners about specific cards' power levels are talking out of orifices not designed for it. I just don't agree that "doesn't go to tournaments in the past 3 months" is the same as "has no idea what they're talking about", or for that matter that "votes in Tom's poll" is the same as "posts in the forums" - there have been several polls on this site where the vocal majority in the forums are of one opinion, but the voting majority on the poll is the other way.)
I sacrificed some degree of strict accuracy for the sake of poignancy. I believe my point still stands.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 12:55PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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that wizards has designed with the goal of dumbing down tournament play is not really helping your argument. i've met a 'tournament player' before. they couldn't even understand banding correctly. I'd certainly rather take the opinion of some who have been playing for 15 years, who commonly have to deal with complicated interactions between cards that never gets played in tournaments. they know more about magic than people who can't even SEE the trends.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 29, 2010 - 1:13PM
#20
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isn't that what a set called "worldwake" should feel like, though? honestly in a set that's supposedly about lands coming to life, how can there even BE "too many" lands beating the crap out of you? i wish they had done some more common and uncommon man lands and balanced them so it wasn't a power issue.
I agree. When Tom and MaRo tell us that these rare dual manlands represent the theme of the set, but don't worry limited players, you get one uncommon, it feels like a slap in the face.
Yeah, we haven't played Worldwake yet, but if you're one of the many players who primarily or exclusively plays limited, doesn't this scream, "This set is not for you?"
Maybe in practice Zendikons will prove to be more exciting than they look, but if they're supposed to be the "theme" of the set for limited, they don't seem very well integrated. Where are the cards that reward attacking with a land, for example? Shouldn't there be some if that's the theme? Shouldn't your theme appear on more than six freaking non-rares? There are 8 non-rare allies, for god's sake, and that's supposed to be a sub-theme.
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