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3 years ago ::
Jan 22, 2010 - 11:56AM
#1
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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning (after the holiday break) on magicthegathering.com.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 9:15PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2010
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"In Zendikar, all the spell-like effects on Allies were "enter the battlefield" effects. Worldwake introduces the idea of tap abilities on Allies. This was something we tried during Zendikar development (the Allies were redone during development). The play was a little more complex, so we chose to hold it off until the second set." Oh really. What does that make Sea Gate Loremaster, chopped liver? That's distinctly a tap ability that's almost exactly the same as your example, Harabaz Druid.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 9:26PM
#3
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"In Zendikar, all the spell-like effects on Allies were "enter the battlefield" effects. Worldwake introduces the idea of tap abilities on Allies. This was something we tried during Zendikar development (the Allies were redone during development). The play was a little more complex, so we chose to hold it off until the second set."
Oh really.
What does that make Sea Gate Loremaster, chopped liver? That's distinctly a tap ability that's almost exactly the same as your example, Harabaz Druid.
Yeah, I'm sure all of us wanted to come on here and mention that. Instead, I'm just going to pretend that a Worldwake card snuck its way into Zendikar.
Because we've come to the realization that the role of the second set isn't to reinvent the wheel. It's there to provide support for the wheel that was created the set before.
This looks like a good idea. It seems like a good way to get around the problem of the disappointing third set... especially with the third set in this case being a large set. (Note: by disappointing third set I mean how in the past the third set tries to introduce new themes and is struck by two problems: 1) it's already had TWO sets ahead of it that have taken up design space and 2) any good ideas in the third set have to be completed within the set)
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 10:45PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2007
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Mark, I considered Multikicker pretty innovate...until you reminded me of Izzet. Dude...Dang. Yeah, I'm not feelin' it as much now. I still think it's cool, but to relate it to SO CLOSELY to the past makes me...sad. Must be hard to work with Anti-Maro if you get hit by that a lot.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 12:05AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2009
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Nice article Mark, just one question (Going with Coandco two postings above): Why was Sea Gate Loremaster allowed to stay in Zendikar if Allies with Tap-abilities were held off for Worldwake?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 12:53AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2007
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Kicker and multikicker are still horrible names for fantasy game mechanics. It sounds like they should be in a sports-related TCG.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 2:21AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2007
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when I first heard about multikicker, I thought "hey it's repli-kicker". sounds good to me! I always liked replicate, and this version gets to be on permanents as well as spells. I don't think anybody really complained when Evoke appeared so soon afer Channel - not least because Evoke worked much better (Evoke could get both effects, Evoke could trigger CITP effects while only using the spell half).
and yes I agree that kicker and many of the older mechanics (flashback, buyback, threshold etc) don't sound very Magic'y - but I think the standards have changed. modern mechanics are designed more with flavour in mind (dredge, hellbent, devour, soulshift, wither, ninjutsu!!), so kicker suddenly looks a bit aged.
I wonder if they considered rebadging kicker - like they did with fear --> intimidate or fading --> vanishing (modulo minor rules changes)...
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 6:43AM
#8
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i agree about the small sets not needing to innovate. i think the second set would be better much of the time as simple support with a twist. My answer was that he was correct, but only for a tiny sliver of cards. The direct X spell equivalent only applies when the kicker increments are in batches of one and the multikicker cost is a single colorless mana. If the batches have other increments or the multikicker costs involve colored mana, it becomes a lot harder to express the cards using an X. This is why there is very little "multikicker 1" in the set, and when you do see it, the effect isn't simply notching up the effect by 1.
what you don't point out (perhaps deliberately) is that spells with multikicker 1 that already have X in their cost are identical to XY spells, which are considered so ridiculous that they have been lampooned several times, even by wotc ( The Ultimate Nightmare of Wizards of the Coast® Customer Service  ). stuff like comet storm seems both excessively complex and kind of silly to me. and related to this, cards like everflowing chalice have absolutely no reason to have multikicker, as there are simple preexisting ways of costing those kinds of cards. copied from arcana post: stone idol trap: no idea why this is red. putting defensive cards into play, easier to play the more you're being attacked, 6/12? this all feels pretty white, and potentially white/green or white/blue. being able to attack with it next turn is reddish, but it's just as green as red, and this card simply makes no sense with a monored cost. as a red/white gold card, it would be fine. the decision to make this red baffles me.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 7:30AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2006
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Mark, I considered Multikicker pretty innovate...until you reminded me of Izzet.
Dude...Dang. Yeah, I'm not feelin' it as much now.
I still think it's cool, but to relate it to SO CLOSELY to the past makes me...sad.
Must be hard to work with Anti-Maro if you get hit by that a lot.
Magic repeats itself a lot more often than this. Kicker itself was around more recently than replicate. Evoke was just kicker in reverse, and that appeared in the set right after kicker (very little in Lorwyn was actually original). They aren't reinventing the wheel all that often, if at all. Most block mechanics are just a take on other block mechanics.
Multikicker is not that exciting in and of itself, but from what I see they have made a subset of cards more dynamic and it is good for the game to have cards like this. It serves its purpose.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 8:54AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2006
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I just wanted to ask what the heck this card is supposed to be flavor wise. Is there some folk lore I don't know about?
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