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3 years ago ::
May 06, 2010 - 4:55AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2010
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Has anyone ran Mind Shatter with Lotus cobra  s? Turn 3 you can do a lot of damage to someone's hand.
Epic Win #1
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Enemy Resolves - Jace, Gideon, 2x KotR, Baneslayer, Eldrazi Conscription - I win with Oracle of Mul Daya, 2x KotR, and 2x Emeria Angel Epic Win #2
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Turn 9 I beat an extended deck and draw my second land Epic Win #3
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I find a way to win after having Emrakul hard cast twice My Current Build
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Economy Version
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3 years ago ::
May 06, 2010 - 3:22PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jul 19, 2007
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Has anyone ran Mind Shatter with Lotus cobra s? Turn 3 you can do a lot of damage to someone's hand.
Eh. There's not a whole lot else to ramp into in this deck, which means you have to run 3-4 copies of Mind Shatter, which, along with Lotus Cobra, gives you 6-8 cards that are bad unless you can draw the other piece.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 24, 2010 - 2:21PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2006
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Really guys? No discussion of this deck since the changes to extended were announced? I was a die-hard Doran Rock player when the deck was in standard, and looking at what will be around come July 1, I feel this deck is in prime position to dominate in the format. Lets look for a moment at the current big-boys in the metagame: Hypergenesis: gone. Hypergenesis is now banned in extended. Thopter/Depths: gone. Dark Depths rotates out with Coldsnap July 1. The primary win-con of the deck is gone. Zoo: The manabase is gone, as are many other key cards. Goyf is gone in a few months, so the deck is essentially dead now. All-in Red: mana rituals aside from Desparate Ritual are gone, so the deck is gone. Gifts decks: Gifts Ungiven is gone, so its dead. Here's the bad-boys that look to still be lurking around: Fae: Fae ruled standard for two years. Even when 5cc and Jund were around, Fae was still a consistent top 8 threat. This deck loses Jitte, Repeal, and Spell Snare, but considering it never needed those in standard and still has access to Bitterblossom  and Cryptic Command  well as the ever-popular Mistbind Clique  . Oh, did I mention they can now play Jace 2.0? 5 color Cruel Control: this deck never needed the shockland manabase, and Reflecting Pool is still around. It still has its namesake card, and the powerful Cryptic Command. This deck will be around, mark my words. Kithkin/Fish: I group these two together because they are both essentially weenie aggro decks. Fish lost access to Spell Snare and Mana Leak, but considering that they still have Path and now have access to Spreading Seas, i don't think it will be an issue. They also have deprive and other counters if they need it, primarily Negate to avoid board-wipe. Kithkin will likely look like it did in standard, except for possibly the addition of Elspeth and/or Gideon. The Current Standard Big 5: Jund, Vengevine Naya, Next Level Bant, UW Control, Superpals. Face it, they don't lose anything and have access to some older cards they might like to have. These will all be around in some capacity. RDW: This deck has been around in some incarnation practically since Magic was created. It will be around, in what form is unknown, but it will be around. My thoughts on the Metagame: Fae has always been a plus-matchup for Doran. We have Cloudthresher to wipe the skys, Great Sable Stag that can't be countered and that they can't block, Pulse/Thoughtseize to deal with Bitterblossom, and the ability to have what is basically a 5/5 down turn 2. Jace 2.0 adds a new threat to their deck, but we have access to answers. 5cc, i found anyway, to also be a better than 50-50 matchup. Gaddock Teeg absolutely wrecks that deck, and they play a slow deck. If you can simply slow them down with a couple thoughtseize and get some early pressure, the match is very winnable (esp. if you run Wilt Leaf Liege and can drop three to the battlefield when they cast Cruel Ultimatum. 18 to the dome anyone?) Kithkin and Fish are slightly rougher matchups due to the speed of the decks, but they are roughly 50-50. My only problem with Kithkin was if they sided in Stillmoon Cavalier, meaning i had no answer, but that's what DoJ in the side is for or what you take away with Thoughtseize. Their creatures aren't that big so if you keep their Cenn's off the board and blow up any Honor of the Pure you see the game should be ours. Fish is a more annoying matchup due to their access to countermagic, but its no less winnable. Dropping a Doran early means that they are immediately on the defensive, and there are several merfolk (silvergill adept and sejeri merfolk) that are worse with doran on the field. as long as you hold removal for their lords and are smart with your fetches, this game should be ours. I don't know how the matchups with the current Standard big-5 will work out, considering i never got to play against them, but I'd imagine that Jund will be somewhere close to a 50-50 since BBE becomes a 2/2 and we have plenty of answers to their win-cons. NLB and Vengevine Naya can be de-railed by pathing Vengevines, and with our disruption the matches will be interesting. I'm out of time for now, so i'll post my thoughts on the evolution of the deck later tonight.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2010 - 12:16AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2006
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Evolution of Doran Rock: Since Doran rotated out of Standard with the arrival of the Zendikar block, several new cards have made their way onto the scene and into consideration for your builds. Oran-rief, the Vastwood  : This ZEN rare land should be at least a 1-of in any new Doran list, if not a 2-of. It has insane synergy with Kitchen Finks  . Essentially, Finks becomes a recurring wall that gains you two life every time it comes back. Oran-rief adds a +1/+1 counter to finks, canceling out the -1/-1 counter from persist. this means it has no -1/-1 counters when it leaves play, and keeps coming back. Not to mention it puts Doran out of range of the new cmc2 5 damage instant burn spell. Sejeri Steppe  / Bojuka Bog  : These WWK common lands each offer a unique ability that if you run Knight of the Reliquary you shouldn't pass up. Steppe is pretty much an auto include in any deck running KotR, and Bog isn't bad if you have a lot of graveyard decks running around. Steppe can protect a Doran or whatever creature you have that needs protection, and bog eliminates graveyard shennanigans. Stoneforge Mystic  : The WWK two-drop was a cornerstone card in Boss Naya, and she fits in extremely well here too. One of the primary reasons to avoid equipment aside from Jitte in previous builds was because you had to run 4 to find it with any sort of consistency. the Mystic lets you fetch out the equipment you need at the time you need it, meaning if you need a Basilisk Collar  over a Behemoth Sledge  you can find it. Plus, with the Siege Tower out she becomes a stable 2/2 body. Basilisk Collar: Some previous incarnations ran Loxodon Warhammer  or Sledge, but Basalisk Collar grants deathtouch and lifelink. That can be huge. Deathtouch forces opponents to alter their attacking/blocking decisions, esp. if you have a first strike creature on the field. The Lifelink also helps to heal from Thoughtseize  and fetches. Vengevine  : I'm still torn on this guy. The CA generated by his recursion is amazing, but Doran (and Junk) are both midrange decks that don't have a ton of creatures in the 1-2 slot. If you modify the build to a creature-heavy build with minimal disruption and removal, he could be a house. Abyssal Persecutor  : This guy is a house. A 6/6 flying trample for 4? Yes please. Yeah, you have to get rid of him to win, but considering the fact the deck is removal there shouldn't be a huge issue here. He tramples over Fae tokens for 5 and forces gangblocks to save a jace. That pressure alone means he has a shot at the 4 slot. Realms Uncharted  , Explore  : Both are great cards for a deck that runs two non-ally mana pairs. Realms lets you find your lands, and explore lets you play an additional land and cantrip. Realms also thins your deck by 4 cards, somthing that shouldn't be overlooked in a metagame where consistency is key. Kor Firewalker  : He's proven to be a house in standard against RDW and Devastating Red. He's decent against Jund as well, and considering the removal pool of 5cc, he may be a good choice for SB. Wall of Omens  : Builds that lean more towards a control game may look to include the Rise uncommon. Its in a large number of standard decks right now, and its ability to soak up early aggro with its 4 toughness is not to be overlooked. Mind Sludge  : At least while TS block is in extended, this card can be a house when paired with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth  . Take their entire hand for 5 mana. this can wreck control decks. Momentous Fall  : While it has yet to really find a home in standard, the fact it is green and has a card draw effect must NOT be overlooked. esp. with Doran, there's nothing to complain about if you only draw a card or two but gain 5-7 life for four mana. It can help avoid removal and provide a means for recursion. Can be useful if you have a Putrid Leech  on field and they attempt to kill it (pump, MF, draw 4 gain 2). Consuming Vapors  : This card is our answer to walls like Wall of Denial  or shroud creatures. Combining life gain with sacrifice removal is great. This is a way to deal with Stag, White Knight, Stilmoon Cavalier, and other nasty pro-us creatures. Its fun to play one when the only creature your opponent has is an Inkwell Leviathan  . Didn't happen with this deck, but it was hilarious. Malakir Bloodwitch  : This is the anti-baneslayer/anti-FOD card. the bloodwitch can block both all day long, and is immune to Path and Oring. You can force some bad DoJ with one of these on the field, and that works to our advantage. Next up will be a first draft decklist...whenever things get less crazy here
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3 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2010 - 1:13AM
#35
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Fea>Doran deck will never make more then a tier 2 showing simply because it has to devote so many slots against control decks leaving little space to stop the amazingly fast agro decks you can expect.
Really if you want to play rock play Jund cascade is just better CA and gives you red which is superior to white in a deck like this.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK!
"ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day  ..."
"MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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3 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2010 - 3:43PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2006
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Doran is not a tier-1 deck, you're right. It never was. What it was, however, was extremely consistent and really destroyed Fae decks with regularity. Fae has a very hard time dealing with a 5/5 on turn 2. Most of their removal can't touch Doran, and Doran is the reason that they sideboarded Deathmark and why some splashed into white for path. Doran is also a good choice in an uncertain metagame because of its consistency. This deck deals very well with rogue decks.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 7:43PM
#37
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So does anyone have any good, updated lists? I'm hoping to use this for new extended (without TS).
4 Noble Hierarch/Birds of Paradise
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Tutelage
3 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Smother
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Behemoth Sledge
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Murmuring Bosk
2 Oren Rief, the Vastwood
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Seijiri Steppe
Sideboard:
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Great Stable Stag
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Vampire Hexmage (Oblivion Ring???)
Thoughts? Wide Variety of spell-like lands for fetching with KotR, basic Stoneforge package, good amount of removal, little disruption, Dark Tutelage for constant fuel, and a smattering of solid creatures. I'm concerned with it not having a big house 2 drop like Goyf, but the mana base is too shaky to support Nantuko Shade. I'd also love Wall of Omens, but I don't know how to fit it nor do I know if it even fits.
I am of the opinion that every deck should always run Luminarch Ascension. "How do I help my deck against deck X?"
Luminarch Ascension. ^_^
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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 11:48PM
#38
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2009
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I'm thinking about a Grave Scrabbler  /Fauna Shaman package for this deck. Is this engine worth the deck slots?
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 12:40AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Jul 19, 2007
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I'm thinking about a Grave Scrabbler /Fauna Shaman package for this deck. Is this engine worth the deck slots?
I don't think that a deck built arounds consistency wants to devote slots to a slow, fragile card advantage engine. Fauna Shaman certainly has potential, but it won't live up to it here.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 09, 2010 - 2:27PM
#40
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// Lands
2 [WWK] Sejiri Steppe
2 [WWK] Stirring Wildwood
2 [ZEN] Swamp
2 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
2 [ZEN] Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
2 [M10] Sunpetal Grove
2 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [ZEN] Forest
2 [ZEN] Plains
// Creatures
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [FNM] Kitchen Finks
3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
3 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [ROE] Wall of Omens
3 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
// Spells
1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [CFX] Path to Exile
3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
1 [ARB] Behemoth Sledge
2 [WWK] Smother
2 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [WWK] Kor Firewalker
SB: 3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 [M11] Great Stable Stag
SB: 2 [ROE] Consuming Vapors
SB: 2 [M11] Leyline of the Void
I don't like Dark Tutelage. It's no Bob and it's just unpleasant most of the time, so I included WOmens and that gave me access to Leyline. I'm contemplating a splash of blue and/or maybe the Conscription package in place of Stoneforge, but I feel that will probably end up being very clunky. Just a silly idea that popped into my head.
Leyline of the Void is for dealing with any graveyard shenanigans, Vapors is for control matchups (mostly dealing with Sphinx of Jwar Isle and such), Gaddock Teeg for 5CC and other control MUs, Oblivion Ring is a catch-all, Firewalker for RDW/Boros (kind of for 5CC), Stag for Fae. Testing is solid, Fae fold to Stag, RDW folds to Firewalker and Void destroys Vengevine. I'm concerned with Zoo so I'm contemplating Consume the Meek, but Zoo is much weaker now than it used to be. Firewalker is also good in that matchup (sometimes). Baneslayer also seems worth contemplating and I would LOVE to be able to fit Realms Uncharted.
I am of the opinion that every deck should always run Luminarch Ascension. "How do I help my deck against deck X?"
Luminarch Ascension. ^_^
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