|
3 years ago ::
Dec 03, 2009 - 10:34PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2005
|
1) If I band Mesa Pegasus  with Razorfoot Griffin  , do they both have first strike? Same applies to trample, flying, etc. 2) IIRC, when the attacker assigns damage with a Trample-enabled creature, s/he may choose to assign more than lethal damage to the creature (for example, assigning an extra three damage to ensure that pesky creature dies, even if Giant Growth  ed). If this is so, is the reverse also true for a defender with banded creatures? Could s/he assign less than lethal damage to the creatures and take more him/herself in order to ensure a particular creature (or more) survived? 2b) Just thought of this one: If I'm playing against a Ninja deck, can I block a trampling creature with a band, and then allow all the damage to hit me - just to avoid Ninjutsu?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice
"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan
This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon
Buttler of the House of Trolls
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 03, 2009 - 10:55PM
#2
|
|
|
Ugh, Banding. I'm not sure about this but I'll take a stab at it since nobody else is here yet.
As far as I can tell, Banding just changes who gets to assign the damage, it doesn't change the rules for how that damage can be assigned.
Actually there is this in the rulings for Mesa Pegasus:
"If a creature in combat has banding, it's controller assigns damage for creatures blocking or blocked by it. That player can ignore the damage assignment order when making this assignment."
Now this just says that you can ignore the the assignment order. I'm very inclined to say that lethal damage must still be assigned to all blocking creatures before any can be assigned to the defending player.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 03, 2009 - 11:00PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
|
1) If I band Mesa Pegasus with Razorfoot Griffin , do they both have first strike? Same applies to trample, flying, etc.
No.
702.19g Banding doesn't cause attacking creatures to share abilities, nor does it remove any abilities. The attacking creatures in a band are separate permanents.
2) IIRC, when the attacker assigns damage with a Trample-enabled creature, s/he may choose to assign more than lethal damage to the creature (for example, assigning an extra three damage to ensure that pesky creature dies, even if Giant Growth ed). If this is so, is the reverse also true for a defender with banded creatures? Could s/he assign less than lethal damage to the creatures and take more him/herself in order to ensure a particular creature (or more) survived?
No. But the defending player in that case can simply assign all the damage to one or more blocking creatures that they are willing to lose.
702.17b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. The attacking creature's controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it's attacking.
Example: A 2/2 creature with an ability that enables it to block multiple attackers blocks two attackers: a 1/1 with no abilities a 3/3 with trample. The active player could assign 1 damage from the first attacker and 1 damage from the second to the blocking creature, and 2 damage to the defending player from the creature with trample.
Example: A 6/6 green creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature with protection from green. The attacking creature's controller must assign at least 2 damage to the blocker, even though that damage will be prevented by the blocker's protection ability. The attacking creature's controller can divide the rest of the damage as he or she chooses between the blocking creature and the defending player.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 03, 2009 - 11:11PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2005
|
Just to make sure I have this right: Player A attacks with Darksteel Colossus  . Player B blocks with Mesa Pegasus / Razorfoot Griffin band. Player B can assign ALL damage to Razorfoot Griffin ?!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice
"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan
This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon
Buttler of the House of Trolls
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 03, 2009 - 11:19PM
#5
|
- Niftily helpful
- DCI Level 2 Judge
Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2001
|
Yes they can. Trample is optional: you don't have to assign the extra damage to the defending player if you don't want to. If the player with the banding creature wants, they can have the trampler assign all of its damage to one of the defending creatures and not take any trample damage.
Wizards.Com Boards Net Rep
DCI Level 2 Judge
Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2009 - 11:04AM
#6
|
|
|
If you are attacking with a band, do all creatures in the band deal combat damage to the blocking creature?
If yes, and you have a creature with trample in your band, and the blocking creature blocks the creature with trample, do you have to assign lethal damage to the blocking creature with the trample creature, or can you assign lethal damage to the blocking creature with other creatures, allowing all the trample damage to be assigned to the defending player? (I understand if the blocking creature has banding it is a moot point)
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2009 - 11:13AM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2005
|
Above Argus quotes rule 702.17b, which says "When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt."
So when assigning damage, any damage the trampler does can go on to the player, as long as between it and other creatures there is enough damage assigned to the blocker to be considered lethal.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2009 - 11:14AM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
|
If you are attacking with a band, do all creatures in the band deal combat damage to the blocking creature?
If they don't have trample, yes, they must. If some have trample, they may not deal damage to the blocking creature, depending on the power and toughness of the creatures involved
If yes, and you have a creature with trample in your band, and the blocking creature blocks the creature with trample, do you have to assign lethal damage to the blocking creature with the trample creature, or can you assign lethal damage to the blocking creature with other creatures, allowing all the trample damage to be assigned to the defending player? (I understand if the blocking creature has banding it is a moot point)
As long as lethal damage is assigned to the blocking creature by an attacker or by some combination of attackers, the trampler can deal damage to the defending player.
For example, i attack with a 1/1 creature, a 2/2 creature and a 5/5 trampler, all in a band. My opponent blocks with a 4/4 creature. I can choose to assign the 1/1's damage to the 4/4, and the 2/2's damage to the 4/4, and split my trampler's damage 1 and 4 between the blocker and the defending player. If the blocker had been a 3/3, i could assign all 5 of the trampler's damage to the defending player.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2009 - 12:34PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Nov 26, 2009
|
I use banding quite a bit. Normally, when blocking with more then one creature, the attacker decides what creature takes how much damage. With banding, the defender gets the choice. You can assign all the damage to a single creature. You can only band one creature without banding in any given band. A band only has a special quality (first strike, flying) only if all creatures in the band have that same quality. A mesa pegasus (1/1 flying, banding) banded with a keljoran skycaptain (2/2 flying, banding, first strike) would retain flying, but lose first strike for example. on the flip side, a keljoran skycaptain banded with a white knight(2/1 first strike) would retain first strike, but lose flying. A mesa pegasus with a white knight and a glory seeker (2/2) would not retain banding with all three, unless either white knight or glory seeker gains banding somehow. In regards to banding/ trample. Trample damage is decided normally. If a rino (4/4 trample) Was blocked by a band of white knight/ mesa pegasus, and all damage was given to the pegasus, the player would still take 3 trample damage. Just to make sure I have this right:
Player A attacks with Darksteel Colossus .
Player B blocks with Mesa Pegasus / Razorfoot Griffin band.
Player B can assign ALL damage to Razorfoot Griffin ?!
In this example, if all the damage gets assigned to the Griffin, the griffin would die, and the player still takes 9 damage from trample.
If you are attacking with a band, do all creatures in the band deal combat damage to the blocking creature?
If yes, and you have a creature with trample in your band, and the blocking creature blocks the creature with trample, do you have to assign lethal damage to the blocking creature with the trample creature, or can you assign lethal damage to the blocking creature with other creatures, allowing all the trample damage to be assigned to the defending player? (I understand if the blocking creature has banding it is a moot point)
When attacking with a band, all the creatures in the band deal damage. A band is considered a single creature. You either block all of it, or none of it. If you attack, and one of the creatures in the band has trample, you lose trample for that battle. If both banded creatures have trample, trample danage is decided normally.
RPGtable username : RTiger
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2009 - 12:41PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
|
A band only has a special quality (first strike, flying) only if all creatures in the band have that same quality. A mesa pegasus (1/1 flying, banding) banded with a keljoran skycaptain (2/2 flying, banding, first strike) would retain flying, but lose first strike for example. on the flip side, a keljoran skycaptain banded with a white knight(2/1 first strike) would retain first strike, but lose flying. A mesa pegasus with a white knight and a glory seeker (2/2) would not retain banding with all three, unless either white knight or glory seeker gains banding somehow.
Bands do not have abilities, creatures have abilities. Banding creatures together cannot cause them to gain abilities nor can it cause them to lose abilities. If you band a kjeldoran Skycaptain with a white knight, the skycaptain still has flying, first strike, and banding; and the white knight still has first strike and protection from black.
In regards to banding/ trample. Trample damage is decided normally. If a rino (4/4 trample) Was blocked by a band of white knight/ mesa pegasus, and all damage was given to the pegasus, the player would still take 3 trample damage.
You are using rules for trample that are more than a decade old. The rules for trample were changed shortly before 6th edition was released. Under modern rules, damage is dealt the same way it is assigned, so if all of the damage is assigned to the pegasus, all of the damage is dealt to the pegasus.
If you wish to deal damage to the defending player with a trampler, you must assign damage to the defending player; and if you wish to assign damage to the defending player, you must first assign lethal damage to all blocking creatures.
In this example, if all the damage gets assigned to the Griffin, the griffin would die, and the player still takes 9 damage from trample.
Incorrect. If all of the damage is assigned to the griffin, then all of the damage is dealt to the griffin.
A band is considered a single creature.
No it isn't.
702.19g Banding doesn’t cause attacking creatures to share abilities, nor does it remove any abilities. The attacking creatures in a band are separate permanents.
|
|
|
