I'd really like to see the Hunter Burton match. He's the Home Town Hero playing against the Number one player in the world right now... they are on game 3, and it looks like the HTH might sweep Yuuyu... Why are we not getting a little bit of that match? Who really cares about Brian Kibler vs. whoever? Neither one are relevant to the player of the year race, nor are they "stories" of this tournament. The story for Kibler was 8-0 day one again.
Same thing with Paolo... we've seen him play. I guess game 5 is "exciting" but now we may miss the other two matches... seems very biased on the coverage part.
anyone know where I can get a list of current type 2 deck lists I can look at. I haven't kept up with type 2 lately so I want to see what is winning now.
Edit: Techy: go to deckcheck.net they have a ton of lists there.
yeah its a little bias but if burton pulls off the win it will get a huge amount of post match coverage so its not like it will go undetected.
thanks for site
Edit: Paulo-over 9000 Ikeda-0, but paulo lost oh well....off to see kibler or burton? Can you at least hold Game 5 of Burton vs watanabe?
Edit2: i don't think Kibler can race Progenitus.
The wall is very pretty tho.
Edit: I was wrong once again.
That was crazy.
I'm not even talking about the game 5, just the aftermatch belief that Papatsarouchas won....and I still didn't see it.
ill have to go back and download the videos to see that whole play again but yeah commentator fail.
and they finally show burton lol
Yeah Buehller did screw up on the Kibler match saying hypergenesis won, when in fact kibler won.
Um, if Kibled had put the Angel into play with Hypergenesis, his opponent would have destroyed it with Angel of Despair. Might have been topdecked, of course, but the right play is definitely not to put the Angel into play with Hypergenesis.
Doesn't the come into play abilities trigger when they enter play so couldn't he put it into play after angel of despair came into play (never played hypergenesis, so don't know how it works)
yeah dredge hasn't changed much since i was smoking it in standard when it was big.
Kibler didn't have to topdeck the Baneslayer, he could've kept it to not have it destroyed by Angel of Despair.
i was rooting for him
Hey BDM and Randy, you guys are doing a great job with the commentary today, the games are superlative. Keep up the good work. I like your play by play more than the NFL games on today.
i'd be happy with juza to win and im just happy kibler made it out of quarters.
Paulo had a great deck and played it perfectly, but that combo is just too easy to break up that i don't think it will take off after this weekend.
I did the Juza language prerelease plan for Zendikar for YEARS, man. It's a hard road to hoe, but it does give you an insanely good recall of cards.
I could never imagine memorizing a whole spoiler based on the pictures.
Edit: I don't like juza's matchup here, because gobling guide just nets the dredge guy more lands which enables hedron crab.
yeah i think dark depths deck turned into the elf decks last year that if they didn't combo by like turn 3 or 4 just got torn apart because everyone knew how they worked.
you get used to it. i was like that back in kamigawa cuz i just played the cards so much i knew what they were and knew what they did. granted some of them were just general ideas on what they did but that usually does it for you.
yeah i agree.....but people will still have chalices, paths, and wasteland varients to combat that deck and other decks.
Re. Randy + BDM not knowing who won: don't forget, these are the same commentators who thought you could Putrefy a Blood Moon and walk a Baneslayer Angel into Angel of Despair
control decks tend to tear those combo decks apart because there control is flexible enough to stop multiple things so they are not just stuck stopping depths.
it happens on occasion. usually cards that destory creatures and artifacts usually hit the third target enchantments.
not a baneslayer angel lol
Obviously not. But it has to destroy something. You can't just forget to target something.
i didnt say it wasn't obvious it is just obviously the important point.
plus i just felt like being sarcastic
The coverage is still awful after all these years... we can't get a shot of the dredge player's graveyard, really guys?
Or perhaps he's milling his opponent in order no to overcommit. He's certainly not trying to win like that.
And why would he play Crab t1 as they suggested? It could be killed before getting a chance to do its job. It was not just to save 2 life.
The problem with the Dark Depths deck is that the answers to it are mostly Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter. Cards that everyone was playing anyway.
There were some decks that also had a Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek. Getting to choose the combo makes the deck a lot more resilient.
yeah actually i loved the deck they did a deck tech on that gifted for 2 different combos. that is my favorite style of deck. i played a toolbox deck like that that just transmuted for whatever answer fit the situation.
Would be nice if they picked a partner for BDM that knew the format. It would be cool if they chose a player that was in the know so that viewers can get a more of what is happening that we dont see. For example, in game five against Kibler the Baneslayer couldahve been in his hand when Hypergenesis resolved because if I recall correctly his opponent had an Angel of Despair which would have destroyed the Baneslayer if he had played it form Hypergenesis which makes playing it main phase correct.
I don't get why Juza didn't play Jixlid Jailer. It deals with the Bridges whatever happens right? If you darkblast it the Bridges get removed if I'm not mistaken.
EDIT: never mind, the Bridge loses the ability to get removed from the graveyard. Doesn't work.
C'mon, Watanabe, I want to see a Japanese winner, and if you can go to the finals you can lock that up!
it automatically plays it through quicktime, does anyone know how i can make it play through windows media player?plz help someone! thank you
What I did was click the "Problems?" thing and then it lists 5 things. The third one asks you to try other streams. Then choose Media player.
Didn;t even know Ravenous Trap existed. Pretty good vs Dredge.
wow which tgg are we playing again im confused rofl
Are the quarters over? Who won the Burton/ Waatanabe match?
Burton's win seems like a big boon for Kibler, since he had no dredge hate (except Meddling Mage on Dread Return I guess?) I think Kibler has to be the favorite in that semifinal match, although the Molten Rains are useful against him (breaking up the Punishing Fire/Grove combo and keeping him off Baneslayer mana)
Gosh, even Wizards' staff use Macs nowadays. When will they release MTGO on Mac OS X?!
No. You can't use Kabira Crossroads to pick up your own Punishing Fire.
Macs have access to run Windows so they are probably not super rushed to run Magic Online on Mac OS X (that's what I do at least).
Just to let BDM and Randy know if they see this or someone relates it to them. In the MODO lives series...Welkin Tern can't block and the reason the Vampire's Bite wasn't kicked is he didn't want Punishing Fire to be brought back
Evangelos Papatsarouchas forgot his own Angel of Despair trigger. Brian Kibler didn't put Baneslayer Angel into play to Hypergenesis presumably because he didn't want to lose it to the Angel of Despair. Yet he didn't say anything about the mandatory trigger.
Where on earth was the judge?
I agree. I know judging can't be perfect, but that's bad. People watching that game should've stopped them.
This is really a scandalous oversight of the judging staff at the pinnacle of events, the top8 of a Pro Tour, which had an immediate effect on the outcome of the game.
I'm very sorry for Van, who deserved to win, but he was denied, probably due to name recognition of his opponent. Somebody should have stepped in and amended the situation.
Really the only thing to fix once a turn cycle has passed is confirm that Kibler did not intentionally not say anything about it. Barring that there is nothing they can do to fix it. Assuming Kibler missed it, everyone missed it. The judges, commentators, coverage guys: everyone.
Don't agree. It's really bad that nobody noticed the angel ability until it was too late but there were like ten things going on in the meantime.
Besides, if there were consequences they would not be for Kibler in the first place as he was not the one who made the mistake. Current philoshophy to this kind of mistakes is to penalize instead of fix so Kibler would not have gotten off any worse.
So in that match Kibler might have "forgot to mention" the trigger after not putting the baneslayer in play. Still if you put that angel of despair in play you shouldn't forget why you have it. Judges get minus points anyway.
Kibs is going to make the HOF on the next ballot, thanks to this finish. But what about Ikeda? I think he needs this to guarantee him getting in.
I'm still hoping Kibler wins too.
Bup bup bup! Best top 8 i've ever seeeeeeen! regardless of vicotor from the quarters on, i'm happy!
Hmmmm...... Japan (which is eternally more awesome than the u.s.) or kibler (who is eternally more awesome than x.)........
I,.,.,.,., Don't ,,.,.,.,.,Known!!!!! LMFAO!
I love you wizards and all things related to magic even the people that make it more homogenous than it is! I love it all!
Seems a bit too much excitement about Kibler getting a random win like that. I think the judges and Kibler are just as much at fault as Evangelos forgetting the trigger.
Randy and BDM: you are awesome! the public ;loves you lol!
Randy, do you want sick counters back again? I realize (for one) that cancel (and double negative [and mindbreak] are absolutely sick) but do you think counter magic needs a boost? Randy please somehow bring blue back even though you're not part of that! I mean it's still here but you know what I mean......
Edit! ; guys! Once again i love magic! ROFLMAO!
This is the most fractal/good game i've played! I hope Ikeda WINS!!!!!
I don't care which one wins they;'re both supreme beings!
Agreed, might as well punishing burnwillows.! that might as well be part of the deck at no expence. I love magic!
PPS: Blue/green/white can be really good. Kraken hatchling. Aggro is overrated.
I love how many sleeves Brian has broken while being filmed.
Well Kiblers deck is very well tuned against Zoo so this match seems a bit predictable. 3-0 maybe? wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah well done, pretty amazing comeback to action for him since Hawai
is anyone else hoping that buehler will say something not realizing hes still live
Congrats Brian Kibler!! You even came back after a terrible 0-3 draft. If you don't mind, I think I will trust your advice on Extended more than your advice on Limited.
Super congratulations to Kibler. He played superbly. His deck was just great.
Although the finals were pretty much a shutout (see games 1 and 2).
Huzzah my hat lives due to crappy misplays by Papatsarouchas!
HOWEVER,I was stunned that PV lost to zoo!
I was sure PV was going to win I mean it was PV playing a blue black deck with bitterblossoms and thoughseize which happened to have a 3 turn combo kill against a field of Disruptionless aggro decks. I can't believe ikeda knocked him out. Ikeda's deck seemed outright awful, I mean watching him get wrecked by Kibler when he kept getting those Spec Procs in his hand--it just seemed really inconsistent.
That game 5 between PV and ikeda really highlighted the glaring problems with that Hexmage deck though. All the aggro player has to do is get out ghost quarter and the Hexmage deck is totally blown out. Even if PV had the needle, he already chaliced for 1!
I really don't like this punishing fire tech though, It seems TOO annoying, I mean it totally invalidates so many archetypes. Elves! ? Dead! Fae? Dead! Domain Zoo ? Dead!
Any strategy that tries to win with creatures X/2 or smaller is screwed. Which is a large swath of decks. Decks are going to have to be totally redesigned to only run x/3s and bigger, which means stuff like Watchwolf might see play while chaffe like Goblin Guide, which was borderline to begin with, will probably get axed!
Nevertheless a very exciting t8! Kiblers victory over Hypergenesis was epic!
Today we took a step toward all PEs occurring online in the future. For the judges to miss a play that ultimately swung the championship is just mind-blowing.
That said, Kibler brought the right deck for the format, and played it well. Congratulations to him and his team.
In the interview Kibler kinda gave himself away knowing Angel of Despair would trigger but found it very convenient it didn't so he said nothing. Pretty awkward situation that it decided who would play the final. Not saying I wouldn't have acted like him but it's not very sportsmanlike.
If he was Mike Long or Olivier Ruel the mtg-community would probably be in a giant ''he cheated again''-debate.
I went to fix a snack at some point during the feed and when I came back I caught the tail end of a conversation between BDM and RB about Angel-of-Despair-gate. Did they offer any insight into what happened?
What if Kibler thought that it was a "You may..." trigger? I don't feel obligated to point out my opponent's mistakes, and if I think it is a "You may..." trigger, I am not going to reach across the tabble and read the card to see if I am right. Also, I think both players were probably more focused on the fact that there was now a 10/10 Protection from Everything on the table. I would definitely focus on that.
That is not to say that Brian Kibler didn't know his opponent needed to blow something up. But I think that it is perfectly fair for him not to say anything.
"Forever tainted" is probably a bit harsh, but I agree in general with the sentiment. Assuming Kibler found out about the mistake between the quarters and semis, the honorable thing to do would have been to scoop to Burton and split the difference in prize money with Evangelos.
Realistically, however, can we actually expect anyone to do this with that amount of money and prestige on the line? I honestly don't know whether I could have.
I guess it boils down to an issue of responsibility; whose job is it, exactly, to ensure the rules are enforced? The players? The judge? The spectators? Some combination thereof?
I don't claim to have the answers here, but I think it's important to ask the questions.
How in the world is that the honorable thing to do? (Conceding that is - you might be right about splitting the prize money). Conceding to Burton doesn't help Papatsarouchas at all, and I don't see why Burton getting a free win is better than Kibler getting one. At that point the damage was done, Kibler continuing to play out the tournament is absolutely the right thing to do.
The issue of what should have happened in the match is definitely a more complex one. I feel bad for Papatsarouchas losing in that way, but on the other hand it was his mistake that cost him the match. You gotta play your own cards correctly if you want to win the pro tour.
Fair point. The real solution, of course, would be to "rewind" the match to the point of the infraction, then continue from there. Failing that, they could just replay the offending game from the start.
Given that there aren't provisions for that, it's difficult. (Also, perhaps the fact that Evangelos conceded the game trumps all other considerations.) I see your point about my solution being unfair to the other half of the draw; Ikeda would have faced an opponent who had only survived one match, not two.
That said, I'm glad you agree that some sort of prize money split should have been offered. (Maybe it was; I don't pretend to know what goes on behind the scenes.)
It seems like (from reading the coverage) it was in fact an honest mistake on the part of both players, in which case there's really no reason (and really no means) to punish Kibler.
Like I said, it's a real dilemma.
Pretty annoying that Randy keeps talking about how 'innovative' Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire is when it's the most obvious combo that everyone thought of as soon as it was spoiled.
Also... is there a way to change the style of the boards back? I haven't been here in a few months and this is just horrendous. Do we not have autocard anymore?
If Kibler thought it was a "may" trigger he is not at fault. (If it had been a "may" trigger the judge shouldn't do anything).
If Kibler knew it was a mandatory trigger he should have been disqualified for cheating. He can't claim to have forgotten about the existence of the trigger when he actively played around it. (In the interview he said that he did play around it).
You list my name "Hofmann" in your article "Pro TourAustin Finals: Top Extended Deck Lists" with "e" instead of "a". Please correct this.
Sincerely yours Mike Hofmann
So, you took a part of my post to judge what I was saying, instead of the whole thing. The point is that if Kibler thought it was a "You may..." trigger then he is not required to say anything. And it is impossible to prove that he did not know it was a "You may..." trigger, unless there was some point where an Angel of Despair was played with no other targets on the board, and Kibler said, "You have to kill something," which is very unlikely. Perhaps he knew something needed to be blown up, but you could never prove that, so it falls into the gray areas of the rules.
Besides, if you can't remember to blow something up with your own Angel of Despair, you really don't deserve to win the match.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.