OK, for the *third* time I'll try making this post (the first 2 times the boards decided to FUBAR when I tried to copy-paste something from Maro's article into them. BRING BACK GLEEMAX!!!)
I only skimmed the article, hoping for some official word on these Vintage cards springing up in Zen packs, but found none. I did, however, find this little tidbit I'd like to respond to:
What feels right at mythic rare and what doesn't? What's special and what's run-of-the-mill?
To me, Mythic rare has to be, well, mythic. Y'know, like things you'll tell your buddies "Hey, I just did this" and you'll go down as a legend in your playgroup. Like windmill-slam a giant angel. Or burn out an opponent's board with a dragon. Or drop a giant unkillable monster. Or become suddenly unable to lose the game. Or, y'know, counter a spell. That's all well and good too. Not.
Basically, a mythic rare should have resonance. Baneslayer Angel was a good mythic rare cause she was big, flashy, had sweet artwork, and when you saw her you knew you never wanted to see her again except on your side. Same with Bogardan Hellkite or Darksteel Colossus. They're big, flashy, and resonant. Interestingly enough, I think M10, the set of resonance, did mythic rares (and just about everything else) the best I've seen so far. Zendikar mythics look like just a money grab. Some, like Iona and Lorthos, feel Mythic. Others (most of the others), just, well, don't.
What we didn't want in mythic rare were spells that you saw all the time in lower rarities doing simple, plain things only cheaper and more powerfully. We shouldn't, as an example, print Naturalize for G and stick it in mythic rare. This is what I meant when I used the term "utility." Being powerful is not unto itself a reason to make a card mythic rare.
Uh. Sure, Maro, whatever you say. You'd NEVER print a spell that did something simple and plain that we see *all the time* in lower rarities (God I wish I could autocard right now). Like countering spells, right? You'd never make a mythic rare that did nothing but counter spells, cause we see that all the time in lower rarities. We have Negate, Essence Scatter, Cancel, Double Negative...you'd never THINK of printing a Mythic Rare counterspell that did nothing all that different except a bit better and for a cheaper cost, right? Not even if that cost was 0 and it could counter uncounterable spells, right, Maro? No way that'd *ever* be a mythic rare. Uncommon, maybe. Probably not common; that'd be too good. But maybe uncommon. But *never* mythic.
Maro, I'm not stupid. I can read. And there are many of us who can also read. We see what's going on, and what you're doing is not what you're saying. If you want to tell us that Mythic rarity is supposed to be for powerful, resonant, flavorful, special cards, make it for powerful, flavorful, resonant, special cards. If you want it to be for tourney staples for another money grab, make it for tourney staples for a money grab. But don't make it a money grab and say it's supposed to be for powerful, flavorful, resonant, special cards. We're not stupid.
We shouldn't, as an example, print Naturalize for and stick it in mythic rare. This is what I meant when I used the term "utility."
How is that "utility" by any stretch of the imagination? I mean, yeah naturalize is utility, but printing a mythic rare vanilla 3/3 for W wouldn't be utility even though it obsoletes watchwolf. Plus, you know, Baneslayer Angel kicks this argument in the teeth anyway.
Zammm = Batman. Bronies unite. "I'd call you a genius, but I'm in the room." It's my sig in a boxShow
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:
Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."
I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.
Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other BarryShow
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic , giving you time to set up your silly combo . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster...
Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil.
And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right?
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players.
And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it.
He/It got me with Light of Sanction , which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad , things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed .
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
Basically, a mythic rare should have resonance. Baneslayer Angel was a good mythic rare cause she was big, flashy, had sweet artwork, and when you saw her you knew you never wanted to see her again except on your side. Same with Bogardan Hellkite or Darksteel Colossus. They're big, flashy, and resonant. Interestingly enough, I think M10, the set of resonance, did mythic rares (and just about everything else) the best I've seen so far. Zendikar mythics look like just a money grab. Some, like Iona and Lorthos, feel Mythic. Others (most of the others), just, well, don't.
This. Lotus Cobra doesn't feel mythic at all, and stapling the word "Lotus" on to it doesn't change that. The counterspell trap just looks like a way to soak Vintage/Legacy/Extended players because of the existence of a badly designed mechanic (storm) that calls out for a good SB card. Other than that, I haven't really been offended by any other mythics thus far.
How about this for a rule? "If the card is one for which four copies will be routinely included in decks, it's not a good Mythic." Cruel Ultimatum would have made a great Mythic - I don't understand why it wasn't. On the other hand, Mindbreak Trap is a lousy Mythic. It does a simple task for a low price; it should be Rare (because the actual implementation is a little complicated).
Make the Ascensions Mythic, they're way flashier than the Cobra and Instigator.
I feel that Mark badly dropped the ball this week by not mentioning Zendikar AT ALL. I was at the prerelease this weekend; I want answers.
What's with this business of Vintage cards in the boosters? Would you maybe like to explain what that's all about? Can you tell us something to confirm that Magic is not in fact liquidating its warehouses of leftover cards from the early days, making one last cheap cash-grab before closing down forever? (I don't think this is really likely, but it was the first thing I thought of when I heard this rumor.)
What about Intimidate? Why replace Fear with an almost-identical ability, instead of just changing Fear to work the way you want it to? Is it just an attempt to cover up for the COMPLETE LACK OF A NEW KEYWORD (ability words don't count) IN ZENDIKAR?
I'd also like an explanation of the Surrakar, although I don't really expect that from Mark. And I was really hoping today's Arcana would be the contents of the ZEN intro packs (which I know because I bought one and read the insert, but since I don't know the cards yet, this didn't tell me too much).
To weigh in on the mythics issue:
Lotus Cobra doesn't make a good mythic, in spite of MaRo's defense. But I think Mindbreak Trap (for all that it could have used a more evocative name) actually works as a mythic, because it counters uncounterable spells, and potentially a whole bunch of them, and potentially for free. Plus the art really works for me, reminding me of the "sphinxes" scene in The Neverending Story; the statues' mouths slowly open, revealing beams of doom, as did the sphinxes' eyes in the movie.
(I may well have made the opposite argument before, but this is my opinion as it currently stands; Mindbreak Trap is doing something we've never seen before, and a very powerful, if narrow, something at that. That's acceptibly mythic, while Lotus Cobra is no more mythic than Dark Ritual or Earthbind or any other abusive mana source.)
It's not accurate to suggest that no mythic could ever appropriately counter a spell; Last Word would feel appropriate as a mythic, because it's a counter that denies the possibility of being countered. Dismiss is a better card for most play purposes, but could not be a rare, let alone a mythic; Cryptic Command is still better, and perfectly fits rare, but should not be a mythic. (In general, anything that was in a cycle should not be lifted to mythic unless the whole cycle is; this is why Mirror-Sigil Sergeant annoys me, as nothing about him suggests mythic-ness.)
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
Never mind the history of Magic, I think that's a pretty unique achievement in the history of game design.
One thing I noticed with this column is that the five star system is running into a bit of trouble. Articles like "Kind Acts of Randomness" and (in a very different way) "80000 Words" are excellent pieces that everyone should read. Compare with something like "IM Legend" which some readers found very amusing, but which isn't really more than an overlong version of a single joke (sure, it had Magic design content, but none of it was new). On a five star scale I guess it makes sense for these to all be fives, but they're not really in the same class.
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:
Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."
I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.
Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other BarryShow
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic , giving you time to set up your silly combo . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster...
Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil.
And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right?
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players.
And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it.
He/It got me with Light of Sanction , which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad , things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed .
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
Lotus cobra can be ridiculously good with cards that play more land on a single turn, but whether it needs to be mythic I have no idea.
Intimidate I actually understand, because fear seems like something you should only have on black cards, and they wanted to expand it into other colors. Intimidate makes sense for flavor when your talking about green creatures or red creatures, etc etc.
I also am wondering about the vintage cards.
And last word is good, I know because I have one, but on the other hand counter spells are limited. You can't counter spell forever, but it does gain you some tempo. Many top tier decks don't counter spell at all, they rely on oblivion rings. Last word is also not the only uncounterable counter spell, and if you want to talk mythic I would think thought hemorrhage might be a better choice. I mean really, have you seen that card? You play it in a deck that uses telepathy, you find out what their biggest creature is, and then get to hurt them for life and remove every copy of it from the game all at once and its still a rare.
Of all the mythic rares I've seen the one I agree with most is maelstrom nexus, I use it in a 5 color creature oriented deck, and I can play up to 3 creatures in one turn by having the nexus, and wild pair in play, which isn't as hard to do as it sounds.
To me, mythic means potential to be very powerful, not.. lets ramp up this card to crazy power levels. I think we are seeing a bit of that in the new felidar, its a great card and I like it a lot, but its not over powered in the way mythic rares sometimes are. If you ask me, lotus cobra is mythic because wotc doesn't want players to have lots of them, they are supposed to be something you get rarely and maybe have one in your deck. The minute they are in every players deck, thats when I start to worry.
and stick it in mythic rare. This is what I meant when I used the term "utility."
you loads
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block)
